[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
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Saket Kale
saket at hostroyale.com
Mon May 14 14:36:59 CEST 2018
There is a unsubscribe link right below with each email that you are getting. Will be easy if you read the whole email and do it instead of making responses to the thread. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> members-discuss mailing list members-discuss at ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/xxxxxxxx <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/devendra.g%40tutishost.com> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Thanks, Saket https://hostroyale.com On 14 May 2018 at 17:49, Dmitriy Krinitsyn <Dmitriy.Krinitsyn at virtualfort.ru > wrote: > Can you take me off this email chain too, please. > > > ------------------------------ > *От:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> от имени Peter > Linder <peter at fiberdirekt.se> > *Отправлено:* 14 мая 2018 г. 15:05:35 > *Кому:* David Benwell; William; Bunea TELECOM > *Копия:* members-discuss at ripe.net > *Тема:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > > But there is no point in arguing this. It has been discussed over and over: > > It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just because you want it for > free or at a very low cost. Current holders have a good legal ground to > refuse. Even if it was somehow reclaimed on a large scale, it would last > for a year or so? Remember, most addresses would need to go to countries > with large populations where Internet is not built up like it is in Europe > or North America. Then what? Even if RIPE could reallocate addresses to > last a few more years it would mean even *more* work to do v6, not less. > > Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE will allocate to you. I > know this sucks, especially in poorer countries. But that is probably the > only way your business is going to happen, in the short term. An > alternative would be to bother the IETF to release their reserved space but > that is probably a waste of time (never mind de-bogonizing it). > > Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little because of cost. It will > eventually start hurting more, and in different ways. There are ways to > prepare for that, including making sure v6 is enabled and functioning on > everything you make. > > /Peter > > > > Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev David Benwell: > > No its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why allow a LLR to > retain address space that they may never have used. > > > > > > > > *From:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>] *On Behalf Of *William > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 12:32 > *To:* Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> <suport at bunea.eu> > *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > > > But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a look at your history > (or here in Croatia) - you want to do the same, steal from some parts of > the society ('the rich') to 'benefit' the whole which ends horribly wrong. > > > > This discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian suggestion to move RIPE > to Moscow. > > > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia > > > > https://ip6.im - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab > a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to > have. > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> wrote: > > Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider the fact that those ‘guys’ > got their hands on /8 blocks tens of years ago, and probably did not pay a > dime for them. > > In the light of events, one /8, respecting the 1024 IPv4 policy that RIPE > has, would belong to over 16.000 LIR accounts! > > And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a lot of business compared > to one company that holds a /8 :) > > > > Thanks > > — > > > > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu / +40752481282 > > *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu / +40745495495 > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov <alxl at telenet.lv> wrote: > > > > Bruno has it’s point. > > > > Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, but only ICANN has the > power to do so. > > > > I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather say as all IP space is rented > (owning a number isn’t bright), all that rented space, wherever it is > legacy or current should be re-audited to justify the reason of use. > > > > > -- > Alex Lobachov > Telenet, sia > Network Systems Engineer > LinkedIn: https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll > E-mail: alxl at telenet.lv > Skype: alxl__ > Direct office: +371 67886224 > Office: +371 67711111 > > > > *From:* Bruno Carvalho <bruno.carvalho at xrv.pt> > > *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM > > *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net > > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > > > William, > > Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was introduced. And everyone > should be regulated (pre-RIR or not). > > Is the same has if you own a car from back the traffic laws (1800 years?). > If you drive it now, you have to comply with all the laws that regulate the > sector. > Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't have to comply with the > actual regulations? > > If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 and 255.255.255.255 (that > are not local or bogons), i bet that most than 50% are legacy and not used. > > --- > > [image: XRV] > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt) | +351 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment before printing this email > > [image: Visit our website] <https://www.xrv.pt/> > [image: Facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/>[image: Twitter] > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > > > On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote: > > > > These are legacy. They are not RIR business. > > > > No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is plainly wrong, they never owned > them, this is pre-RIR space), they are private property. > > > > Taking them is theft and nothing else, no matter how you phrase it. > > > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia > > > > https://ip6.im - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab > a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to > have. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> wrote: > > I agree, > > > > There are tens of /8's available, some of them even unannounced. For > example there are lots of entities which if they would gave up (even > partially) of their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete > exaustion to 2020+. > > > > Thanks, > > Petru > > — > > > > > <email-signature.jpg> > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu / +40752481282 > > *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu / +40745495495 > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram <j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl> > wrote: > > > > I think we should prioritize on on point two: what to do with unused > blocks. > > > > > *Van:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *Namens *Bruno > Carvalho > *Verzonden:* maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11 > *Aan:* members-discuss at ripe.net > *Onderwerp:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > > > This discussion is quite interesting. But i think it should be discussed > between all RiRs. Not only for RIPE. > When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, and do a simple scan of > their assigned IP ranges... we found some /14 and several /16 > unassigned/unused ranges. > > > Personnally, i think we should focus on 2 main things: > > > - Improve IPv6 implementation all over the territory (i know this is > painfull for many LIRs because it implies additional work and purchase of > new equipments. But let's face it. We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't > support IPv6, it's very obsolete and not performant). > > > - Check with the other RiRs what would be the best to do with those big > unused ranges that are owned by companies that don't use them. > > > Regards > > --- > > <blocked.gif> > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt) | +351 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment before printing this email > > <blocked.gif> <https://www.xrv.pt/> > <blocked.gif> <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/><blocked.gif> > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > > > > On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote: > > > > Hello > > Not needed IP = The addressese company is ready to sell for a small profit [image: > 😊] ? This is probably good indication that its not used anymore. One > option is to automatically block all and any IP transaction which does not > involve transaction of the whole company/business. It is a question that > can IP be a commodity. Now its a commodity that is getting more rare by the > year. Maybe IP should be considered an jointly owned part of infrastructure > which is deployed by need basis. (Socialistic way) > > Other option is to start to take money per IP. This would instantly mean > that everyone would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it would cost 1 euro > / year for a IP it would only be approx 1000 euros for the smallest > allocation. Someone with 10 million IP addressese are likely to happily pay > for it fi they are in use, but if they are not i would think they would be > handed back. (Capitalistic way) > > One option is also to go with the current system because internet is > working so its not horribly wrong at the moment either. > > One interesting this is tho that old LIR:s are likely to wanting to keep > these things unchanged. New LIR:s are more likely to want changes as this > is heavily favoring old LIR:s. And every year a proportionally larger part > will be the ones with few IP:s and same vote than the one with alot of IP:s > and also only 1 vote. > > Br. Hans > > > > > -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- > Lähettäjä: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> Puolesta > REG ID: pl.skonet > Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34 > Vastaanottaja: pdonner at znak.fi; members-discuss at ripe.net > Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner pisze: > > > I would like to amplify Dave's good proposal, by suggesting that unused > addresses should be handed back to RIPE, so that they can be added to a > pool of addresses reserved for LIRs who needs them for non-profit promotion > of IP networks. > > > Ok, but there is never ending story to resolve: how to define 'unused > addresses'. Because not announced in BGP definitely != not used. > > -- > > Tomasz Śląski > pl.skonet > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/ > members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno. > carvalho%40xrv.pt > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- > discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- > discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- > discuss/alxl%40telenet.lv > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- > discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss at ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/peter%40fiberdirekt.se > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- > discuss/devendra.g%40tutishost.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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