[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals

Thu Apr 11 19:21:20 CEST 2024

SO!
May be it is time to make new GLOBAL RIRs REregistration IPv4 (and AS)
with payment per resource in all the World?

> Daimler’s 53/8 is legacy addesss space as is the 25/8 for UK MoD. There
> are plenty of addresses that are outside of RIR control for legacy
> reasons.
>
> Similarity addresses not being rooted on the internet doesn't mean they
> wouldn't be in use elsewhere.
>
> There isn't really anything to "ignore".
>
>
>
> Kaj
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ________________________________
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of
> sdy at a-n-t.ru <sdy at a-n-t.ru>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 8:00 PM
> To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin at roskomnadzor.io>
> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net>
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging
> Scheme 2025 Proposals
>
> Absolutely agree - it's abnormal situation.
>
> But now looks like NCC bosses continue ignore it. May be they are under
> control on Mercedes-Benz or UK Ministry of Defence??? :-)
>
> But really, it is look like, it is too difficult to reform charge scheme
> in this situation.
>
>> RIPE saying about last IPv4 /8 is run out, but stop...
>>
>> IPv4 /8 - Mercedes-Benz Group AG
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.db.ripe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue%26searchtext%3D53.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237821753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CGALEu12rMr93jaKbr5Jd%2FSyL1T1iEinoJQUm%2BfqbuI%3D&reserved=0<https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query?bflag=false&dflag=false&rflag=true&searchtext=53.0.0.0&source=RIPE>
>> (over 50% of pool unused! Guess they even didnt have so much cars for
>> so
>> much IPs)
>>
>> IPv4 /8 - UK Ministry of Defence
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.db.ripe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue%26searchtext%3D25.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237833186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jY3r3II7kmzvQ8F4p44f392NTtarv%2F1bfIxkH7IwqIE%3D&reserved=0<https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query?bflag=false&dflag=false&rflag=true&searchtext=25.0.0.0&source=RIPE>
>> (Never was announced -
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstat.ripe.net%2Fui2013%2F%252025.0.0.0%23tabId%3Dat-a-glance&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237840815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XLApVhfQEEQc91fD2v2V0QDRVGIthXqJvHaqs%2B6%2Bh4k%3D&reserved=0)<https://stat.ripe.net/ui2013/%2025.0.0.0#tabId=at-a-glance>
>>
>> This members hold most biggest blocks in RIPE and didnt use it, but pay
>> same - 50 EUR/year for this IPv4 /8.
>>
>> When some LIRs have /8 and pay for that 50 EUR/year + 1600 EUR/year
>> (membership fee), other members paying same amount for 1 x /24 (if they
>> have luck!)
>>
>> Its nonsense, why RIPE continue to funding more and more budgets from
>> small LIRs?
>>
>> Its looks not good. Its looks like a some lobby!
>>
>> On 11.04.2024 15:52, Dmitry Kohmanyuk via members-discuss wrote:
>>> On 11 Apr 2024, at 16:55, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss
>>> <members-discuss at ripe.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Confidential/Конфіденційно
>>>
>>> Just a note: you are posting on mailing list which is archived so
>>> everyone can read every post, yours too. Perhaps that line was added
>>> automatically:)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why do you think this statement is correct: “They are the main source
>>>> of work for RIPE employees.” ??
>>>>
>>>> Even if you think about auditing or maintaining RIPE DB, it would be
>>>> strange to think that working with /16 requires 256 times more time
>>>> and
>>>> effort than working with /24.
>>>> If you think about different "non-MAIN" services like Learning, then
>>>> there is no difference between big and small LIR at all.
>>>> Resources do not reflect all of these dependencies. And again you are
>>>> talking about fairness.
>>>
>>> In the fairness of use of learning resources, RPKI, Training you are
>>> correct, yet we are talking about “cost of doing business” resources.
>>> Since you seem to represent a biggest mobile telecom of Ukraine,
>>> Kyivstar, and also the only IPv6-enabled large ISP in the country
>>> (thanks for that btw) - what is your opinion re charging per resource
>>> allocated, either by category method, or logarithmic method, or some
>>> other (number of resources in use, objects in the database, etc.).
>>> Your
>>> company makes heavy use of IPv4 and has millions of subscribers: what
>>> does “fair” sounds like to you? Do you support extra fees for those
>>> who
>>> have IPv4 available, or discount for those who have to make do with
>>> IPv6
>>> only?
>>>
>>> (Deleting hundreds of quoted lines below.)
>>>
>>> — dk at hostmaster.ua “We had IPv6 before Kyivstar”
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of
>>>> Mihail Fedorov
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 3:39 PM
>>>> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC
>>>> Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals
>>>>
>>>> Charging per ASN is even worse than just price increase. It is
>>>> terrible
>>>> and killing even more LIRs
>>>>
>>>> Imagine rather new LIR who is trying to do business based on what is
>>>> LIR intended for - providing LIR services to consumers. For example
>>>> 30
>>>> clients who requested ASN sponsorship during year.
>>>> If charged per ASN they will pay twice more than huge corporations
>>>> serving only purpose of their own. Those typically have just 1-2 ASNs
>>>> and tons of resources attached to it. They are main source of work
>>>> for
>>>> RIPE staff and they should be funding expensive projects like Atlas
>>>> and
>>>> others.
>>>>
>>>> Actually working LIRs also have business contracts/logic already
>>>> established on current charging scheme and adding ASN fee will kill
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Once again - why not just bill based on resources? It’s extremely
>>>> easy.
>>>> Oh, right, resource holders won’t like it :
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
> -----------------------------
> С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
> ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
> +7(498)785-8-000 раб.
> +7(495)940-92-11 доп.
> +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
>
>
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-----------------------------
С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
+7(498)785-8-000 раб.
+7(495)940-92-11 доп.
+7(925)518-10-69 сот.