<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">hi Martin, maybe I should have started my first e-mail to this proposal with the links of the recordings at RIPE69 in London where we have discussed the creation of this policy proposal: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ripe69.ripe.net/archives/video/200/">https://ripe69.ripe.net/archives/video/200/</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ripe69.ripe.net/archives/video/10147/">https://ripe69.ripe.net/archives/video/10147/</a> On 20/02/15 18:26, Martin Millnert wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Hi Elvis! On Fri, 2015-02-20 at 15:10 +0100, Elvis Daniel Velea wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">hi Martin, I will try to answer some of the points you have raised in the e-mails sent to this list in the past couple of days. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Thank you. <snip> </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">This means that new entrants will have a method to at least receive a /22 from the RIPE NCC for the foreseeable future. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> At the current burn-rate, 8 years.</pre> </blockquote> Want to bet it's going to be more than 10? I would even dare to say 15 at a normal pace. But only if this policy proposal does not get approved and the type of speculation this policy proposal tries to prevent doesn't speed up even more than it has in the few months since RIPE69. <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">When the last /22 policy was discussed and approved, the members of this community [...] I see there is enough space for even more than 10k new entrants. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> I have no argument against that this is what the community has decided.</pre> </blockquote> But you would like to change it... Please do start a separate topic if you feel like you would maybe want to come up with a proposal in that direction. <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Increasing the RIPE NCC IPv4 price is counter-productive to that goal. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">This policy proposal does not intend to increase the IPv4 price. It only wants to close a loophole where someone could just open an LIR only for the reason to request and sell the /22 allocation immediately. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Nod. On your website, <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://v4escrow.net/policy-development/">http://v4escrow.net/policy-development/</a> , I learned that your organisation was asked by some in the room to produce this (and other?) policy proposals, referring to slide 10 of <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ripe69.ripe.net/presentations/72-APWG_RS_Feedback_Final.pdf">https://ripe69.ripe.net/presentations/72-APWG_RS_Feedback_Final.pdf</a> .</pre> </blockquote> Well, as mentioned above, the video is also available, you could have found it easily if you wanted to (it is in the presentation archives of the RIPE Meeting). <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ripe69.ripe.net/archives/video/200/">https://ripe69.ripe.net/archives/video/200/</a> You can see Andrea's presentation there, the interesting part starts at 7:50, the discussion of this topic starts at: 18:00 and lasts until the end. Further discussion where I have been asked to 'volunteer and 'be the target for the tomatoes': <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ripe69.ripe.net/archives/video/10147/">https://ripe69.ripe.net/archives/video/10147/</a> (30 more minutes :) <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> I wasn't there, but on your website you're talking about that there is "speculation" going on with this address space and that it is the speculation that you want to stop with this policy proposal. </pre> </blockquote> That is actually what I also mentioned in the policy proposal. <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> Could you elaborate or provide evidence for that? The slide referenced doesn't support the claim.</pre> </blockquote> If you want to ask for the evidence for the 70 cases the RIPE NCC has observed, well you could ask Andrea. some things that I have noticed, and this is public data: 1. see the example of registries ru.ibulavkin* on one side. I think they have opened about 27 registries in a few months. They have 6 opened at this moment and I believe #23 and #25 will be closed to make room for more harvesting. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/membership/alloclist.txt">ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/membership/alloclist.txt</a> I think all of their /22s are merged into ru.srv2013 (as they have 24 of those /22s) which is on the same name. I could also bet that the 4 /22s they have in registries #22, #24, #26 and #27 will be merged into the big one and I am not sure that we could ever prevent that. I kinda see it as a legitimate way to getting addresses if they really use them and not stockpile. However... 2.have a look at the transfer list and filter for QuickSoft LLC. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/ipv4-transfers/table-of-transfers">https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/ipv4-transfers/table-of-transfers</a> How can _one_ company transfer (up until now) 12 /22s from the last /8 and 3 of them only in February 2015. 3. If you further verify the list of transfers and the delegated-extended files, filter for /22s from 185/8 you will even find allocations that have been made by the RIPE NCC and transferred within a week from the allocation date. <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> Buying and selling address space isn't at all necessarily "speculation". It's just reselling, right? Just like your business.</pre> </blockquote> I would not compare them, but I'll take this bullet for the sake of the proposal... (Gert, you said tomatoes, not bullets directed to my business :)... heh, should have expected it. <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> (I also learned on your website that your organisation is involved with making policies -- transfer policies I assume -- better. I approve of that work!) </pre> </blockquote> Well, not only. I/we also volunteered (along with a few other co-authors) to unify the IPv6 policies into one simple document (as also requested by the community at a few RIPE Meetings). However, that policy proposal was withdrawn after RIPE67 because the changes it proposed were too complex. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ripe67.ripe.net/archives/video/36/">https://ripe67.ripe.net/archives/video/36/</a> [...] <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Finally, If you think that the last /8 policy is bad and that the RIPE NCC should implement a policy where all the free pool is depleted as soon as possible, feel free to come up with a new policy proposal. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> I'll retreat and think a bit about it. :)</pre> </blockquote> I would also welcome a constructive approach to this proposal :) <blockquote cite="mid:1424453215.5143.463.camel@galileo.millnert.se" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> /M </pre> </blockquote> regards, elvis <div class="moz-signature">-- <table width="400" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" width="180"><a href="http://v4escrow.net" target="_blank"><img src="cid:part1.00050408.00000703@v4escrow.net" style="margin:10px 40px 0px 0px" width="178" height="96"></a></td> <td valign="top" width="200"> <h1 style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); margin: 0px 0px 10px;color:#1a9bd7;font-size:14px; ">Elvis Daniel Velea</h1> <h2 style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); margin: 0px 0px 10px;color:#74757d;font-size:13px;font-weight:100; ">Chief Executive Officer</h2> Email: <a href="mailto:elvis@v4escrow.net" style="color:#74757d; text-decoration: none; ">elvis@V4Escrow.net</a> US Phone: +1 (702) 475 5914 EU Phone: +31 (0) 61458 1914 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"> Recognised IPv4 Broker/Facilitator in: </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"> <img src="cid:part4.06040007.04090206@v4escrow.net" usemap="#Map" style="margin-top:5px;" width="376" border="0" height="28"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="padding-left:5px;padding-right:15px;"> This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. 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