<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Marco & APWG colleagues<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the response Marco. Some of my questions below suggest there may be problems with the Transfer Stats and IPv4 Allocation Policy. These questions are not really for the RIPE NCC to answer, except where there are legal implications, but for this WG to consider...<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 at 16:57, Marco Schmidt <<a href="mailto:mschmidt@ripe.net">mschmidt@ripe.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hello Denis,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your questions. Allow me to answer as many as I can
right now. As you indicated, getting the data for some of the
requests in your email from 9 December would require quite some
time and effort. Considering that Registry Services is currently
in the busiest time of the year, I would prefer to first identify
if this data would really be beneficial for the ongoing discussion
about the IPv4 waiting list policy and potential policy proposal.<br></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It was only for background information and isn't likely to change the discussion very much. So if you are very busy don't worry about those numbers. My own analysis is likely to be far more explosive. I am still working on the details...<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>
<br>
As for your comments about consolidations, I would like to clarify
that the RIPE NCC uses this term when a member consolidates some
of their LIR accounts into another LIR account. When an LIR
receives resources that are restricted by a holding period, those
resources must be kept in that LIR account until the holding
period has passed. After that 24-month period, these members
usually decide to consolidate their LIR accounts, including their
resources. If a company were to take over one of its child
companies, this would be processed by the RIPE NCC as a merger of
two different legal bodies.<br></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So in a merger/acquisition two legal entities, each with one LIR account, becomes one legal entity with two LIR accounts. A consolidation is when one legal entity has two LIR accounts and closes one of those LIR accounts, transfering it's resources to the remaining LIR account. Is that correct? When a legal entity opens two LIR accounts does the legal entity become two legally distinct RIPE NCC members?<br></div><div><br></div><div>With a consolidation, is the 'movement' of a resource from the closed LIR to another LIR operated by the same legal entity considered as a transfer? According to section 2.0 of the Transfer Policy the movement of an allocated resource from one RIPE NCC member to another RIPE NCC member is a transfer. So it looks to me that a consolidation IS a transfer and therefore SHOULD be documented in the Transfer Stats? But I don't see any transfers listed as CONSOLIDATION. Why not?<br></div><div><br></div><div>In the IPv4 Allocation Policy (ripe-733), section '3.0 Goals of the Internet Registry System', point 3 says:</div><div>"Fairness: Public IPv4 address space must be fairly distributed to the End Users operating networks."</div><div>Given the controversy over companies setting up multiple LIRs to (un)fairly acquire the last bits of IPv4 addresses available through the RIPE NCC being discussed in this thread, in the interests of fairness, as well as openness and transparency, should consolidation 'transfers' be included in the Transfer Stats?</div><div><br></div><div>With the current /24 allocation policy there is a condition that these allocations cannot be transferred for at least 24 months. Are there any conditions/expectations on who can use this address space or who can administratively and technically control these addresses? Is it acceptable that within these 24 months, a separate legal entity takes over both administrative and technical control of this allocated address space and manages the assignment of it? So the legal entity that received the allocation is just a 'shell' that exists only to satisfy the 24 month no transfer condition.</div><div><br></div><div>Now I want to ask a very specific legal question. In the Transfer Policy, section '2.1 Transfer Requirements' says:</div><div>"The original resource holder remains responsible for an Internet number
resource until the transfer to the receiving party is completed."</div><div>So in the example I gave earlier, Company ABC acquired company XYZ (and presumably all it's assets including the LIR it operated) on 2 December. According to the Chamber of Commerce, company XYZ was deregistered on 5 December. So it no longer existed as a legal entity after 5 December. The Transfer Stats state the transfer of the resources from XYZ to ABC occured on 23 December. According to the Transfer Policy section '4.0 Transfer Statistics' says the published date is "The date each resource was transferred". So who was legally responsible for those IP resources between 5 and 23 December?</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>denis</div><div>co-chair DB-WG</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div>