<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi Suresh, I get that and that aspect of the abuse community is providing a valuable service. A valuable service that also could be (and now must be) provided without access to whois data. Effectively, parts of your community have already been working without whois for years in ccTLDs where no or limited whois is provided by the registry. If you can fight abuse without full whois access under .uk, .io, .eu, .fr, etc etc etc, then you can also do it under .com, .net, .info, .whatever. Learn to do without violating the rights of millions of internet users, like many of your colleagues have. Best, Volker <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 29.05.2018 um 13:56 schrieb Suresh Ramasubramanian: </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:PS1PR03MB1548E58A421E1B771139B799F56D0@PS1PR03MB1548.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Exchange Server">  <style></style> <div> <div id="x_compose-container" itemscope="" itemtype="https://schema.org/EmailMessage" style="direction:ltr"> <div> <div> <div style="direction:ltr">But we are not enforcing any laws, I don’t believe in that other “code is law” urban myth either :)</div> <div> </div> <div style="direction:ltr">We as a community are protecting our respective users by blocking phish, spam, malware etc. </div> <div> </div> <div style="direction:ltr">And occasionally we send a heads up to other networks that are hosting or originating such traffic and have a published policy stating that they prohibit it. Here the request is that they enforce their own rules and policies.</div> <div> </div> <div style="direction:ltr">Where does the question of security practitioners arresting the individuals behind these malicious actions arise?</div> <div> </div> <div style="direction:ltr">And likewise since when does law enforcement control the mail / messaging services, dns and network infrastructure of various providers who have to block content for their users or take down content that violates their policy?</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> </div> <div> </div> </div> </div> <hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%"> <div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr">From: anti-abuse-wg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net"><anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net></a> on behalf of Volker Greimann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"><vgreimann@key-systems.net></a> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:20:56 PM To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse <div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="PlainText">Apologies if I offended anyone. However I do believe law enforcement itself should be strictly a government function. Volker Am 29.05.2018 um 13:41 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight: > Volker > > I don't think your choice of language is particularly helpful or constructive. In fact I think you're being intentionally inflammatory. > > Why don't you tone it down a little? > > There's no need to use words like: > "vigilantes" or "rent-a-cops" unless you're simply trying to troll people or believe that the anti-abuse community shouldn't exist, which by extension would suggest that you want to enable online abuse. > > Regards > > Michele > > > -- > Mr Michele Neylon > Blacknight Solutions > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.blacknight.com/</a> > <a href="http://blacknight.blog/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://blacknight.blog/</a> > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://michele.blog/</a> > Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ceo.hosting/</a> > ------------------------------- > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > On 29/05/2018, 11:36, "anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Volker Greimann" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.netonbehalfofvgreimann@key-systems.net"><anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net on behalf of vgreimann@key-systems.net></a> wrote: > > Wow, the level of narrowmindedness and fearmongering is high with this one. > > Crime online will likely not increase due to GDPR. It may be more > difficult to detect and take action against due to the loss of one tool > amongst many, but ultimately that tool was illegal to begin with as it > violated the rights to privacy of millions of domain owners. > > "Private researchers" and other vigilantes or rent-a-cops will indeed > have a more difficult time to obtain such data as they will finally have > to do so by legal means, but then they are in an untenable position > anyway, taking upon themselves functions that should be fulfilled by > actual law enforcement. > > Ultimately, private data if internet users no longer being public will > lead to better registration data for those with a right to access it. > Those with no such rights will have to figure out alternate routes to do > their jobs that does not violate the rights of millions. > > Best, > > Volker > > > > Am 28.05.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Ronald F. Guilmette: > > ox <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andre@ox.co.za"><andre@ox.co.za></a> wrote: > > > >> Firstly I would like to comment that the multinationals and their funded trade > >> groups (and their lobby orgs) shouted from the rooftops that if the GDPR came > >> into effect, Internet in the EU would collapse and there would be digital doom > >> and gloom. > > I am not a multinational. I am an individual volunteer anti-abuse researcher. > > And yet even -I- have told everyone I know that the disappearance of public > > WHOIS is and will be an epic catastrophy. If there was cybercrime on the > > Internet before, it will be increased, going forward, by tenfold. > > > >> How wrong they were (hindsight is perfect - as we can all clearly see) > > Be patient. The change has only just occurred. > > > >> The EU has truly become a world and global leader in the reclamation of > >> individual rights and the free Internet. > > Here on this side of the pond, one usually has to turn on Fox News in order > > to be treated to this level of rubbish. > > > > The only thing that has happened is that private researchers the world > > over have been effectively blinded due to the supreme arogance and idiocy > > of europeans... europeans who, in their religious fervor, have come to view > > it as their holy obligation to foist their demented notions onto the rest > > of the world, whether any of the rest of us like it or not. > > > > Meanwhile the malevolent forces of state-sponsored intrigue and violation > > of human rights are and shall remain totally unfettered and unaffected by > > GDPR, as they will be the first ones to obtain special exemptions allowing > > them to continue to see WHOIS data. The CIA, NSA, BDN, and FSB are > > undoubtedly celebrating the arrival of GDPR, as it further entrenches > > their special status at the expense of the great unwashes masses. > > > > Friday was a sad day for both transparency and democracy, but all across > > the globe both criminals and statists undoubtedly celebrated it with > > toasts of champaign. > > > > > > Regards, > > rfg > > > > -- > Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen, > > Volker A. Greimann > - Rechtsabteilung - > > Key-Systems GmbH > Im Oberen Werk 1 > 66386 St. Ingbert > Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 > Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 > Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a> > > Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" moz-do-not-send="true"> www.RRPproxy.net</a> > <a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" moz-do-not-send="true"> www.BrandShelter.com</a> > > Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: > <a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a> > <a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a> > > Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin > Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken > Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 > > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP > <a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> > > Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. > > -------------------------------------------- > > Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. > > Best regards, > > Volker A. Greimann > - legal department - > > Key-Systems GmbH > Im Oberen Werk 1 > 66386 St. Ingbert > Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 > Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 > Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a> > > Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" moz-do-not-send="true"> www.RRPproxy.net</a> > <a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" moz-do-not-send="true"> www.BrandShelter.com</a> > > Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: > <a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a> > <a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a> > > CEO: Alexander Siffrin > Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken > V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 > > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP > <a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> > > This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. > > > > > > -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a> Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" moz-do-not-send="true"> www.RRPproxy.net</a> <a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" moz-do-not-send="true"> www.BrandShelter.com</a> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP <a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a> Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" moz-do-not-send="true"> www.RRPproxy.net</a> <a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" moz-do-not-send="true"> www.BrandShelter.com</a> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP <a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. </div> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a> Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a> Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a> CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. </pre> </body> </html>