<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1>Any provider can do whatever he wishes, no problem on that, but then the others can filter that network and then explain the customers about that.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Hopefully at some point the governments, consumer associations, etc. will play a role on that, because it looks to me, based on actual experience, is mainly the organizations in RIPE region who deny the evidence.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><div>Regards,<o:p></o:p>Jordi<o:p></o:p>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p></div><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><div>El 18/2/21 18:53, "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div>Jordi<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>At least you are consistent in your belief that you can dictate how we all run our businesses<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>I can’t and won’t comment on providers who are unresponsive etc., but I sincerely doubt that the medium of the reports has any impact on that.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>I will note, however, that other providers who use forms do so in order that they can collect all the evidence they need in one place at one time. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>However you cannot dictate to me how we will accept reports. If we decide that all reports need to go via form so that they can be routed to the correct place then that is our decision and you can either cooperate or not. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Regards<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Michele<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div>--<o:p></o:p>Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p>Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p>Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p>https://www.blacknight.com/<o:p></o:p>https://blacknight.blog/<o:p></o:p>Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p>Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p>Personal blog: https://michele.blog/<o:p></o:p>Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <o:p></o:p>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p>Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></div>Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 15:59 To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Question about spam to abuse inbox<o:p></o:p></div>I see it in the other way around. Forms are not useful at all. You need to manually fill in the form, unless you modify the automated reporting tools for “each” “form-holder”. Many of them also ask you to create an account in their ticketing system, but because you’re not their customer, you actually can’t do it, or can’t use it, etc. … When I tried to follow the steps, with major datacenters, such as OVH (one very common hoster of “bad” customers, not to say criminals), they never solve the issues, or you can’t see the “results” of the investigation (I tend to think that never investigated in fact …).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Most of the abuse reports that we send by email are responded, typically automatically, and there is a reaction to them *when* we have already attached the relevant logs.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>The problem continues to be those that don’t get the emails, bounce, don’t read them, etc., or force to fill the forms. In those case, we just permanently ban the full ranges, if the abuse continues. No other way. We keep records of all that, in case of legal issues, so to be able to probe the ignorance of the abuse-mailbox.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div>Regards,<o:p></o:p>Jordi<o:p></o:p>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p></div> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div><div>El 18/2/21 16:41, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Javier Martín" <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:javier.martin@centrored.net">javier.martin@centrored.net</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>Hello.<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>The subject of abuse emails are, with few exceptions, a useless thing, it depends on the good faith of the recipient.<o:p></o:p></div><div>For our part, we continue to have servers from large companies attacking us for more than 6 months and after dozens of emails no one has helped us.<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>Regards.<o:p></o:p></div><div>Javier<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:15.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;min-width: 500px'>Sobre 18/02/2021 16:33:07, Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> escribió:<o:p></o:p><div><div>Hans-Martin<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>I’d disagree<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>For larger companies the types of abuse reported will go to different places and teams. They’re also better for collecting the data you need to be able to act on a report.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Abuse reports are a nuisance – anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get their head examined. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>However a lot of us will deal with abuse reports, but will not put up with people telling us how we should receive them. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Regards<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Michele<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div>--<o:p></o:p>Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p>Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p>Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p>https://www.blacknight.com/<o:p></o:p>https://blacknight.blog/<o:p></o:p>Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p>Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p>Personal blog: https://michele.blog/<o:p></o:p>Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <o:p></o:p>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p>Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></div>Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Hans-Martin Mosner <hmm@heeg.de> Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 15:27 To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Question about spam to abuse inbox<o:p></o:p></div><div>Am 18.02.21 um 15:02 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg:<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;min-width: 500px'> <o:p></o:p>I know quite a few companies now use specific forms for handling reports of different types of reports and have moved away from email almost entirely, which makes a lot of sense.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p></blockquote>At the risk of derailing this interesting and useful topic, I have to disagree with the use of forms to report abuse. In the cases I've seen, those forms are hard to find, are a burden to fill out, require me to add information that is completely irrelevant to the abuse incident, and don't allow me to add relevant information (such as a complete mail header). Not getting a response only adds to the feeling that I've wasted my time...<o:p></o:p>It may make a lot of sense for companies who see abuse reports as a nuisance, though :-)<o:p></o:p>There are better ways to increase the quality of abuse reports received. The best is to respond positively to informative and verifiable abuse reports with timely and appropriate replies and, above all, actions.<o:p></o:p>Cheers, Hans-Martin<o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote><img border=0 width=1 height=1 style='width:.0104in;height:.0104in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://tracking.getmailbird.com/OpenTrackingPixel/?messageId=Mailbird-fac2cdda-4a90-4080-9b0a-77a6f870cb4a@centrored.net&senderHash=C175E305CD8ED0758E45C3EC77B0B928A0F12D363E2401267137B4A3867D8FE1&recipientHash=159FA75B5F9DD2568C8FEC45EA1001E40CA222B840E63E9DD91C1DF113C061C6&internalId=bdf1c545-7c51-4911-bdc5-f2568de37dc7"><o:p></o:p> ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. 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