<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="EN-IE" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div class="WordSection1"> You really want to claim that CSAM is legal somewhere?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I can assure you that it is NOT<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> --<o:p></o:p> Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p> Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p> Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p> <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p> <a href="https://blacknight.blog/">https://blacknight.blog/</a><o:p></o:p> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p> Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a><o:p></o:p> Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a><o:p></o:p> -------------------------------<o:p></o:p> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Date: Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 13:52 To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RIPE NCC Anti-Abuse Training: Next Steps & WG Input!<o:p></o:p> </div> <div style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:solid #FFCACA 1.0pt;padding:12.0pt 12.0pt 12.0pt 12.0pt;background:#FFCACA"> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> I just put a couple of examples. If we define abuse in a fix way, future ways to abuse will remain excluded. It is a matter of how we word it.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We just need to explain this very well in trainings, not define �abuse�.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I don�t recall specific countries, but in several African countries, when discussing the anti-abuse policies in AFRINIC, we got those comments.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And now that you mention it, are you sure that CSAM is illegal in 100% of the countries? There may be countries where legislation even don�t mention it. So it is a perfect example of what I�m saying.<o:p></o:p> <div> <o:p></o:p> Regards,<o:p></o:p> Jordi<o:p></o:p> @jordipalet<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <div> <div> El 17/2/22 13:43, "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>> escribi�:<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> I disagree<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some types of network activity are not going to be welcome anywhere. Some kinds of use of networks and platforms are not welcome by most people.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Please show me ANY COUNTRY where CSAM is legal.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And �legality� is NOT the bar. Never has been.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If we don�t try to deal with this then governments will probably step in and try to force their views on us, no matter how unworkable they are.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <div> --<o:p></o:p> Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p> Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p> Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p> <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p> <a href="https://blacknight.blog/">https://blacknight.blog/</a><o:p></o:p> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p> Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a><o:p></o:p> Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a><o:p></o:p> -------------------------------<o:p></o:p> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Date: Tuesday, 15 February 2022 at 11:40 To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RIPE NCC Anti-Abuse Training: Next Steps & WG Input!<o:p></o:p> </div> <div style="border:solid #FFCACA 1.0pt;padding:12.0pt 12.0pt 12.0pt 12.0pt"> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> I don�t think we can, neither should, define what is abuse. Examples are ok, but should be clear that are only examples of common considered abuse activities and not necessarily inclusive/restrictive of all the possible situations.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It all depends on the origin of the claim.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Simple examples: In country �a�, unsolicited email maybe legally considered abuse, but not in the country �b� of the origin of that spam. You can even take out of the question the �legal� part, if you want. In country �c� attempt to ssh to hosts from other folks is a criminal action, but in country �d� (origin of the problem) is not.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The problem here is to ensure that if you get a claim for a presumed abuse, you�re able to process it, even up to the point to say �sorry� in our jurisdiction or best current practices, or internal policy or AUP ... whatever, this is not an abuse so we can�t accept your claim, or otherwise, �we are handling it � we have resolved that this way�.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <div> Regards,<o:p></o:p> Jordi<o:p></o:p> @jordipalet<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <div> <div> El 10/2/22 10:25, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Brian Nisbet" <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie">brian.nisbet@heanet.ie</a>> escribi�:<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Colleagues,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Since we last spoke about the proposed training the NCC have been working with various community members to put a draft syllabus in place for further discussion.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> This is a link to the feedback document for this draft:<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M9Wrqu-VKGGwMfJQGK0NlTs5UzH6xJ2_HR2MkTBVR2w/edit?usp=sharing">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M9Wrqu-VKGGwMfJQGK0NlTs5UzH6xJ2_HR2MkTBVR2w/edit?usp=sharing</a><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> What the NCC and the Co-Chairs would love is if everybody could just comment what they think they understand from the learning goals as they�re written and suggest any changes or additions and obviously ask any questions. We�d also like the feedback on the webinar flow design.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> It�s important for everybody to understand that the learning objectives are the basis for the training. These are the skills that the learner must acquire. With these skills we also expect a change of attitude towards abuse handling (which is we think the purpose of this training).<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> While discussion on the list is welcomed and encouraged, we've also planned a Zoom session for any interested parties to discuss this further. This will take place on Wednesday 23rd February at 14:00 CET:<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> https://ripe.zoom.us/j/8221791822?pwd=ZFY0MnNQeWJsTkhQSFlyeEZlUkNJQT09 <o:p></o:p> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Meeting ID: 822 179 1822 <o:p></o:p> </div> Passcode: 1277<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Hopefully with discussion on list and at the session on the 23rd we can move this into a final draft and progress from there.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Thanks,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Brian<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div id="Signature"> <div> <div id="divtagdefaultwrapper"> Brian Nisbet (he/him)<o:p></o:p> Service Operations Manager<o:p></o:p> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network<o:p></o:p> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland<o:p></o:p> +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie<o:p></o:p> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. 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