<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=NL link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1>That could be changed if u ask me by contractual changes Ripe has with it’s members.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>But i kinda get the feeling people in this group don’t want to make the internet a better place!<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Kind regards<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>Van: Matthias Merkel <matthias.merkel@staclar.com> Verzonden: donderdag 2 juni 2022 15:31 Aan: jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl; 'Michele Neylon - Blacknight' <michele@blacknight.com>; 'denis walker' <ripedenis@gmail.com> CC: 'anti-abuse-wg' <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p><div><div>No, because RIPE has no authority to fine anyone. If you think someone is intentionally sending you malicious traffic, the police is the point of contact for you.<o:p></o:p></div><o:p> </o:p><div><div>—<o:p></o:p></div><div>Matthias Merkel<o:p></o:p></div><div><img width=10000 height=1250 style='width:104.1666in;height:13.025in' id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://cdn.staclar.com/logos/novecore/newlogo.png"><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><img width=1 height=1 style='width:.0083in;height:.0083in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://app.frontapp.com/api/1/noauth/companies/2fa1142cccd8fdcdb954/seen/msg_ye75ua2/0/3b7394b6.gif" alt="Sent from Front"> <o:p></o:p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>On June 2, 2022, 3:27 PM GMT+2 <a href="mailto:jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl" target="_blank">jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p><div id="fae_ye75ua2-uhv650"><div><div><div>Michele,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>I have a question for u then.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>What would happen if i can find more people that actually would want this then u can find people that don’t want this.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Would that make a difference?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>I’m very curious on your answer.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Kind regards<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>Van: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>> Verzonden: woensdag 1 juni 2022 13:05 Aan: <a href="mailto:jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl" target="_blank">jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl</a>; 'denis walker' <<a href="mailto:ripedenis@gmail.com" target="_blank">ripedenis@gmail.com</a>> CC: 'anti-abuse-wg' <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>> Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database<o:p></o:p></div></div> <o:p></o:p>Jeroen<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>“- Change the current contracts with all responsible companies where they will have to pay a fine if any of their ip's has been detected and confirmed to produce abusive traffic. “<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>That will never happen and suggesting it is not helpful.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Nobody is ever going to agree to it and it’s completely unworkable. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Regards<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Michele<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div>--<o:p></o:p>Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p>Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p>Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p><a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p><a href="https://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank">https://blacknight.blog/</a><o:p></o:p>Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p>Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p>Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/" target="_blank">https://michele.blog/</a><o:p></o:p>Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank">https://ceo.hosting/</a><o:p></o:p>-------------------------------<o:p></o:p>Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p>Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p></div> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: anti-abuse-wg <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of <a href="mailto:jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl" target="_blank">jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl</a> <<a href="mailto:jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl" target="_blank">jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl</a>> Date: Wednesday, 1 June 2022 at 11:01 To: 'denis walker' <<a href="mailto:ripedenis@gmail.com" target="_blank">ripedenis@gmail.com</a>> Cc: 'anti-abuse-wg' <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database<o:p></o:p></div><div>[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Good morning Denis/everyone, I believe that personal data in the RIPE public database is unwanted and adds no value at all to the public interest. Removing personal data instead of replacing it with actual "responsible organisation" data is unwanted also. To me as a public interest user personal data like assignments of ip addresses is the same as no data at all and should be avoided at all costs. The fact that a real person can be responsible for an ip address shows how immature the solution actually is. When i look at the abuse that online services receive my guess is that ~50% of online traffic is unwanted! I'm currently crunching the numbers so i can back my statements but this is what i got so far. Access log for one online service Total different ip's : little over 11K High risk ip's: 276 (combined hosting/rdp/etc) Abusers: 21 (blocked in next update) In the same period i blocked 173K requests (not IP still need to process this part) This would mean in terms of abuse i would have to send thousands of abuse emails for this single service only (this would be just stupid) how effective will that be if u send them to a "responsible person"? When i goto a grocery and steal or wreck something on purpose and get caught the police will come and i will get a big fine..... or even jail time. When i catch an abuser in the Wild Wild West, the internet makes it cost me even more money! (shouldn't i be payed for catching them?) Clearly the whole abuse part of Ripe isn't working and will never goto work as long as nobody can be held responsible for the actual damage that has been done. I would like to suggest the following: - Remove all personal data and replace with actual data from responsible companies - Change the current contracts with all responsible companies where they will have to pay a fine if any of their ip's has been detected and confirmed to produce abusive traffic. - Part of the fine will be payed to the company that caught the abuser and other part goes to Ripe for administrative costs. With the above we move the problem away from the victims to the causers as it should have been from the beginning! And yes the hosting companies will start crying about this since they never really had to take responsibility for their end-users and probably only see a small portion of the actual abuse since most abuse never get's reported since it costs the victims extra money.... If for some reason there is no company behind any personal registration i believe the resources should be removed from that member unless there is a very goo reason to keep a person responsible (i can't think of any) I'm not good at putting documents or presentations together (Ripe 84), so my excuse for that but i do have the data to backup all of the above! Kind regards, Jeroen -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: anti-abuse-wg <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a>> Namens denis walker Verzonden: dinsdag 31 mei 2022 19:27 Aan: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>> CC: anti-abuse-wg <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>> Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database Hi Michele The proposal is here <a href="https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2022-01" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2022-01</a> cheers denis proposal author On Tue, 31 May 2022 at 18:07, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>> wrote: > > Denis > > > > Where’s the actual proposal? > > > > I’d love to get my personal details removed – especially as they’re for an address I no longer occupy! > > > > Regards > > > Michele > > > > > > -- > > Mr Michele Neylon > > Blacknight Solutions > > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > > <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank">https://www.blacknight.com/</a> > > <a href="https://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank">https://blacknight.blog/</a> > > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > > Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/" target="_blank">https://michele.blog/</a> > > Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank">https://ceo.hosting/</a> > > ------------------------------- > > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business > Park,Sleaty > > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > > > > > From: anti-abuse-wg <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of > denis walker <<a href="mailto:ripedenis@gmail.com" target="_blank">ripedenis@gmail.com</a>> > Date: Tuesday, 31 May 2022 at 14:12 > To: anti-abuse-wg <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>> > Subject: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. > > Colleagues > > I have raised an issue on the DB WG mailing list about publishing in > the database the identity of natural persons holding resources. So far > no one has been willing or able to support any public interest value > in doing so. As things stand all personal data in the RIPE Database > will have to be removed, or hidden from public view. If you have an > opinion about this the conversation is here > <a href="https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2022-May/007432.html" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2022-May/007432.html</a> > > cheers > denis > 2022-01 proposal author > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or > change your subscription options, please visit: > <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg</a> -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg</a> -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg</a><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>