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    <p>Dear TF members, <br>
    </p>
    <p>Here's the draft minutes from our last call. Let me know if any
      corrections are needed.</p>
    <p>I've also made the archives public and linked them from the TF
      page here: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/tf/code-of-conduct-task-force">https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/tf/code-of-conduct-task-force</a></p>
    <p>Cheers</p>
    <p>Ant</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>***<br>
    </p>
    <p>
    </p>
    <p class="lo-normal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b
        style="mso-bidi-font-weight:
        normal"><span style="font-family:Times">Draft Minutes - Code of
          Conduct TF: Third</span></b><b
        style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
          style="font-family:Times"> Call <br>
          18</span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
          style="font-family:Times"> November
          2020, 1</span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">7</span></b><b
        style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
          style="font-family:Times">:30-1</span></b><b
        style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
          style="font-family:Times;
          mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">8</span></b><b
        style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
          style="font-family:Times">:30 (UTC+1)</span></b><span
        style="font-family:Times"></span></p>
    <p class="lo-normal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b
        style="mso-bidi-font-weight:
        normal"><span style="font-family:Times">Present: <br>
        </span></b><span style="font-family:Times">Denesh Bhabuta,
        Antony Gollan, Brian
        Nisbet, Leo Vegoda</span><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">, Salam Yamout</span></p>
    <p class="lo-normal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Summary:</span></b><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">
        The TF discussed
        a request to contribute to the mailing list and agreed that
        people could access the
        archives and send comments to the list if they had input. A
        recent outcome from
        the GM alongside RIPE 81 linked Executive Board eligibility
        requirements to the
        RIPE Code of Conduct, and created a role for the Trusted
        Contacts/future CoC
        Team in making this determination. The TF agreed that this will
        need consideration
        and requested input from the RIPE NCC. A number of open
        questions were
        discussed in advance of updating the CoC document: People should
        not require HR or legal
        qualifications to conduct investigations, though the process
        should be
        developed with this specialist input; It will be important for a
        CoC process to
        include clear time frames where possible; While the CoC Team
        should do its
        utmost to protect the confidentiality of involved parties, it
        will be important
        to set expectations; The people conducting CoC investigations
        should
        not be the only ones making the final determination, a wider
        quorum should be required. The RIPE Chair should not be
        involved in this, as they would be needed as a “final arbiter”
        in the event of
        an appeal. The TF will request statistical information (only)
        from the Trusted Contacts
        on the number of complaints made at previous RIPE Meetings. </span><span
        style="font-family:Times"></span></p>
    <span style="font-family:Times"> </span>
    <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
      level1 lfo2"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
          lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span
              style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">     </span></span></span></b><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Minutes</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Minutes from the previous call were
        approved. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group agreed to include a summary with
        key decisions at the top of future
        minutes for public consumption. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group agreed. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: Include a summary at the start of
          future minutes.</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
      level1 lfo2"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
          lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span
              style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">     </span></span></span></b><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Agenda</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">There were no changes to the agenda. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
      level1 lfo2"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
          lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span
              style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">     </span></span></span></b><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Observers</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo noted that he had received a request
        from someone interested in joining
        the mailing list to contribute. After discussing this with the
        RIPE Chair Team,
        they had agreed that there had been an open call for
        participation and
        membership of the TF was now closed. So, this wouldn’t be
        participation as a TF
        member. However, they could open up the mailing list if the TF
        wanted. He asked
        if there were other TFs that had had open lists during the
        discussion phase. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Antony said he didn’t have a full list of
        how this had worked with past groups,
        but with the Accountability TF they had kept public archives
        with moderation in
        place. That let people see what was being discussed, and they
        could still send
        an email to the TF if they wanted. It was essentially one step
        below having an
        open list. There had been variations of this in the past, but it
        was generally common
        for TF archives to be public. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh said they needed to keep it to a
        relatively small group of
        people, otherwise it became “decision by committee.” He liked
        Antony’s suggestion,
        though it was important they solicit input from people.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said the Diversity TF had been as open
        as possible. He was torn
        between remaining a small/focused group and opening it up. He
        wasn’t sure what they
        had meant by “access to the mailing list so that they could
        contribute”, because
        the TF wasn’t doing everything on the list (they were having
        these calls, for
        example). So, there was more buy-in required than simply
        accessing the mailing
        list. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said she didn’t mind having them join
        the TF – the CoC mattered to
        everyone, so she wouldn’t object – provided the group didn’t get
        so big that it
        became inefficient. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said in his discussion with the RIPE
        Chair Team, they agreed that it
        was the responsibility of the RIPE Chair to decide who was on
        the TF. If they
        now said they would another TF member after the open call for
        volunteers, that
        took them back to the beginning. So, they needed to be careful
        about extending
        membership based on individual requests. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said in that case they documented this
        decision and made the archives
        public for anyone who would like to follow the discussion. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: RIPE NCC to make mailing list
          archives public. </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: </span></b><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">TF chair to respond to request to
          participate and let them know that while the ML won’t
          be opened to non-TF members, they can access the archives and
          are invited to send
          a mail to the list if they would like to make a contribution.
        </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
      level1 lfo2"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
          lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span
              style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">     </span></span></span></b><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">RIPE
          81 Feedback<br>
        </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian noted the vote by the RIPE NCC General
        Meeting to adopt the recommendations
        of the Executive Board Election TF, one of which said that
        prospective board
        members must abide by the CoC and someone must okay this. He
        would need to review
        at the full GM minutes, but he understood this was about someone
        arbitrating
        whether potential board members were abiding by the CoC. He
        thought the Trusted
        Contacts weren’t qualified for this, and he believed the board
        had said the CoC
        TF should look at this. That meant the TF was now potentially
        enmeshed in this.
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh said this went back to one of Leo’s
        questions from an earlier
        call – whether the CoC was meant to cover every activity within
        RIPE. They had agreed
        that it wasn’t so broad but this seemed to be pulling them in
        that direction
        again.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said that was his point. He thought
        the RIPE NCC membership had
        made mistake here, which would have unintended consequences. As
        a TF they would
        need to be mindful of this and be clear in terms of what they
        would be asking a
        future CoC Team to do. This was something they would need to
        have as an item
        for discussion with (potentially) Athina, the RIPE NCC Managing
        Director, the
        Chairman of the RIPE NCC Executive Board. He wasn’t sure exactly
        where this
        should sit, but they couldn’t just ignore this, as people might
        draw differing conclusions.
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo suggested they include this as an agenda
        item for a future meeting, and
        that they ask for an impact analysis from Athina that explained
        what this meant
        for them and what the TF would have to deliver. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said the idea was that violations of
        the CoC would need to be recorded
        on a list somewhere, and people running for the board of the
        RIPE NCC could be
        checked against this to determine whether they were eligible to
        stand. She
        agreed that this would affect them in terms of the CoC and they
        would need to
        deal with this.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said his point was that this was a
        RIPE NCC Executive Board
        problem that was being pushed to the CoC Team and he didn’t
        think it should be.
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said they didn’t have to pick up the
        ball. But surely the CoC they
        would include a requirement that a list of violators be kept,
        obviously with
        some sort of process attached. If they had this, then that was
        where their task
        ended in relation to this requirement from the board. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said one of the questions he had put
        into the document was about record
        keeping and what they should/should not keep a record of (and
        when this information
        should expire). This was something they would need legal
        guidance from Athina
        on when she returned. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said he would share a copy of the
        Executive Board Election Task Force
        report which specified these recommendations in relation to the
        CoC Team. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: Athina to provide input on the
          decision by the RIPE NCC GM to reference
          the CoC in relation to potential EB candidates, as well as
          input on what kind
          of records a future CoC Team would need to keep (and for how
          long). </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
      level1 lfo2"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
          lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span
              style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">     </span></span></span></b><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Review
          of Questions in Document <br>
        </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group continued its review of the
        questions in the document Leo had
        provided. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Investigation – Professional
          Qualifications </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said the question here was whether the
        investigation should be
        managed by someone with relevant HR or legal qualifications. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam asked if interested volunteers could
        be trained for this. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh agreed that interested people should
        be trained. However, there
        needed to be a process on how to conduct the investigation. This
        would need to
        be designed with the help of HR/legal people. This would allow
        anyone who had been
        trained to follow the process. There would need to be someone
        with professional
        qualifications on hand, though they wouldn’t necessarily have to
        manage the
        process. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said if they had strong expectations in
        terms of training and time
        at the meeting devoted to investigations, they were placing
        quite a burden on someone
        who might be attending with other responsibilities (chairing a
        session, giving
        a presentation, etc). This could lead to cases where the
        investigator was engaged
        in something else and was not able to find a resolution by the
        end of the week.
        He asked if it would be better to have a professional instead
        and have a
        community member make a decision on the outcome, or if they were
        happy asking
        someone to potentially sacrifice their participation at the
        meeting for this. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said other communities made sure to
        have a large enough pool of
        people so that one of them could drop everything if needed. If
        something came
        up it could be disruptive for the CoC Team, but in reality,
        chairing a session or
        attending a meeting was just a few hours. The other option was
        essentially to
        employ someone for a few weeks each year to avoid this problem,
        but he didn’t
        like this approach personally. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam supported the first option Brian had
        suggested. Some people would
        be interested in volunteering, and if they had a large enough
        pool this should
        be fine. The process could establish how people were selected
        from the pool (and
        how many). They would need training to join the pool. During the
        investigation
        they would have HR and legal support if needed. Sometimes these
        volunteers
        would have to sacrifice part of their meeting, but that was how
        it worked. She thought
        it was important for the community to take care of itself and
        have the
        processes to deal with its own problems – it was part of their
        culture. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said he took this as rejecting a
        requirement that the person leading
        the investigation have HR/legal qualifications. However, they
        would want strong
        involvement in the design of the investigation process from
        people with these
        qualifications. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Investigation – Schedule</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo asked what a reasonable time frame was –
        both from the perspective
        of those conducting the investigation and of those who made a
        report. One thing
        he noticed was that the DNS WG was holding monthly online
        events, there were mailing
        lists that went on all the time, and formal RIPE Meetings twice
        per year. The
        scope of their charter was all RIPE activities – which meant
        mailing lists,
        intersessional work and RIPE Meetings. So, when they looked at
        scheduling, they
        would need to consider all of these things. He thought they
        needed some borders
        in terms of minimum/maximum time frames. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said expectations should be able to be
        set, both for the victim
        and the alleged perpetrator. It was important that this was in
        there. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said they didn’t need to come up with an
        answer immediately, but
        they did need to let people know what to expect – when they
        could expect a
        resolution to be found, when they could expect to be contacted,
        etc. Much of
        this would be guided by the process; a more complex process
        would take longer
        and vice versa. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said it would be fair to expect most
        of the investigation to be
        done while people were physically/virtually at the event. If the
        issue occurred
        during the Friday lunch time at a RIPE Meeting, then obviously
        they would need
        to be realistic. However, they couldn’t leave this for too long,
        because
        memories faded, and stories changed. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said the other thing to keep in mind was
        that the RIPE Chair Team
        had talked about hybrid meetings with people both at the meeting
        venue and elsewhere.
        And with virtual meetings they had people in different time
        zones. When they
        built this process, they needed be mindful that no one
        participating at 1am was
        at their best. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said the conventions he was involved
        with used a “follow the sun”
        model as much as possible. If they cast a wide net and
        volunteers didn’t necessarily
        have to be present at the meeting, this could be a positive
        thing. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said she was imagining an “uber” model
        – where people in the pool
        grabbed an issue and assumed responsibility for it. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam asked if they had a pool of people for
        the CoC Team, would they
        have to disclose their names and phone numbers? And if so, would
        this be GDPR compliant?
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said he assumed they would list the
        names of the CoC Team – and the
        RIPE NCC could then arrange some method of communication that
        would largely be around
        email or voice communications and wouldn’t require personal
        contact information
        to be listed. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam clarified that she was thinking in
        terms of the parties involved in
        the report. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Antony said he thought Legal did have some
        GDPR concerns here. Athina would
        likely have more to share on this in any case. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Investigation – Confidentiality</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo asked if it was possible to guarantee
        confidentiality to reporters. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said the CoC Team would have to
        undertake to ensure this, but
        there was no legal sanction and realistically there was only so
        much of a guarantee
        they could offer.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh said they could address this in the
        wording – they could say they
        would do their utmost to ensure confidentiality without going so
        far as to
        explicitly guarantee it. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said past training he’d done as a
        manager had said they couldn’t promise
        people they would ensure confidentiality (e.g. “doing their
        best” vs “guaranteeing”).
        They couldn’t promise this because it could potentially
        compromise an
        investigation. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh said they also couldn’t control
        people outside of the
        investigation, there could be rumours, etc. They could only
        promise to do their
        utmost to treat information in a confidential manner. <span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said that would have to be a
        requirement to join the CoC Team – they
        would have to undertake to ensure confidentiality. There might
        be people they
        would have to speak with during their investigation, but in an
        ideal process
        they would check with the relevant parties first. This could be
        a request for
        permission or otherwise more in terms of a notification that
        they would be
        speaking with others. The CoC Team violating the confidentiality
        of involved
        parties in this context would essentially itself be a violation
        of the CoC.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam noted that to a certain extent, people
        should be aware that
        rumours were inevitable if they broke the community’s norms.
        These social repercussions
        were partly why they should behave well. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said rumours already existed without a
        CoC; they just needed to
        ensure they didn’t come from this process or those entrusted to
        follow it. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said they would need advice on how to
        word statements involving
        confidentiality. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Decision Making</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said this question was about the
        separation of duties. Did they want
        the same person to be both the investigator and the decider – or
        should these
        be different people? </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said he wondered if they could steal
        best practices from other
        communities here. He thought the person investigating should at
        least not be the
        only one making the decision, but he would need to look at other
        examples in
        more detail. He thought the decision should at least not only be
        made by those
        doing the investigation. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said this was good, as it had affected
        the schedule as well. If they
        said there should be some separation, then they needed to
        account for that in
        the schedule. And they would need to account for that in terms
        of the people involved,
        so it was giving them some borders in terms of what they were
        working on. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam suggested they could have at least two
        people conducting the
        investigation with a third party (such as the RIPE Chair)
        helping to making the
        decision. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said his concern was that they would
        probably need the RIPE Chair to
        fill an appeal role. If the RIPE Chair was involved in the
        initial decision, then
        they would have to create a separate appeal body. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said the WG chairs been through this
        with an appeal in the PDP recently.
        They had said the RIPE Chair needed to remain separate in case
        they needed to
        weigh as a “final arbiter”. He didn’t think this third party
        needed to be a designated
        person. Using hypothetical numbers, if there was a CoC Team with
        six people, perhaps
        two of them did the investigation and no fewer than four or five
        made the
        decision. This would probably also require some participation
        from the RIPE NCC’s
        Legal Department. He thought it shouldn’t be the same person
        making all of
        these decisions. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said the word he was hearing was quorum.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian agreed. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group stopped before “Record Keeping” in
        the document. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">    6. AOB</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said it would be nice to have some
        statistical information about
        reports made to the CoC Team across recent RIPE Meetings. </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: RIPE NCC to request statistical
          information from the CoC Team on
          reports made in recent RIPE Meetings. </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US">The TF agreed to reschedule the next call
        for Wednesday, 18 November at
        17:30 (CET/UTC+1). </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">    7. Review Actions</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: Include a summary at the start of
          future minutes.</span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: RIPE NCC to make mailing list
          archives public. </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
        EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: </span></b><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">TF chair to respond to request to
          participate and let them know that while the ML won’t
          be opened to non-TF members, they can access the archives and
          are invited to send
          a mail to the list if they would like to make a contribution.
        </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: Athina to provide input on the
          decision by the RIPE NCC GM to reference
          the CoC in relation to potential EB candidates, as well as
          input on what kind
          of records a future CoC Team would need to keep (and for how
          long). </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: RIPE NCC to request statistical
          information (only) from the Trusted
          Contacts on reports made in recent RIPE Meetings to help it
          consider aspects
          around process/size of CoC Team, etc. <span
            style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></b></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
          style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
          EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
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