<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Dear Mirjam and Michael,</p>
<p>You would probably find some useful bits in a recent study of
mine on behalf of the European Parliament.</p>
<p>J. Scott Marcus (2020), “Promoting product longevity: How can
the EU product safety and compliance framework help promote
product durability and tackle planned obsolescence, foster the
production of more sustainable products, and achieve more
transparent supply chains for consumers?”, study for the IMCO
Committee of the European Parliament.<br>
<a
href="https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/648767/IPOL_STU(2020)648767_EN.pdf">https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/648767/IPOL_STU(2020)648767_EN.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Scott<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31/08/2020 18:34, Michael J. Oghia
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMCMt7p-vOpYdeT-MPsPxeQrD7b4nPssep0zz9vZZ5VgMPMKww@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Michael,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you very much for your kind words and for this
absolutely critical insight. You're right that the relatively
short lifecycle of many devices is indeed a primary driver of
the issue. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These are such great examples as well. If it's not too much
trouble for you, would you be able to add this as a comment on
the post itself so that we can keep such good comments as
yours centralised in one place?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't have much to add to your comments other than fully
agreeing with you and wondering if the RIPE community can work
together to lobby for changes – assuming that's something
we're both able and willing to do.</div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Best,</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font
face="arial,
helvetica,
sans-serif">-Michael</font>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><font
size="2"
face="arial,
helvetica,
sans-serif"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">__________________</font></font></font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font
size="2"
face="arial,
helvetica,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font
size="2"
face="arial,
helvetica,
sans-serif"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">Michael
J. Oghia | </font></font></font><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Advocacy & Engagement
Manager </span></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Global Forum for Media
Development (</span><a
href="https://gfmd.info" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">GFMD</a><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">)</span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font
size="2"
face="arial,
helvetica,
sans-serif"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">Belgrade,
Serbia </font></font></font><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">(UTC+2)</span><font size="2"
face="arial,
helvetica,
sans-serif"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"> | </font></font></font><font
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" color="#0000ff"><a
href="https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit">Twitter</font></font></a></font><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit">|</font></font></span><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><font
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" color="#0000ff"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit"><font
style="vertical-align:inherit"><a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">LinkedIn</a></font></font></font></div>
<div><font
size="2"
face="arial,
sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">GPG:
E95D 2127 0D45
77D3 4D43 4D5A
E3BA 6F23 301D
7082</div>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 10:21
PM Michael Richardson <<a href="mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true">mcr@sandelman.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Thank you for this.<br>
I think that one of the key things to reducing e-waste is to
keep devices in<br>
productive use longer. The smartphone cycle is largely being
driven by<br>
planned obsolescence through lack of software updates. While
few of us here<br>
are in the smartphone business, we see the same thing with CPE
devices.<br>
<br>
No software updates means poor security, which pushes for
replacement of the<br>
devices.<br>
More capable devices can sustain more updates, but cost more
up-front,<br>
and there still very little relationship between price paid
and number of<br>
years of supported software updates. At least, I believe this
anecdotally.<br>
It would be nice if we had survey data to prove or disprove
this belief.<br>
Perhaps RIPE along with some of the entities you mentioned
might be able to<br>
do a confidential survey of ISPs in order to summarize the
results?<br>
<br>
EN 303 645 and upcoming UK legislation requires that the
support time for<br>
devices to be made clear at point of purchase. See<br>
<a
href="https://www.iotsecurityfoundation.org/keep-software-updated/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.iotsecurityfoundation.org/keep-software-updated/</a>
for many<br>
references. (Yes, I'm the presenter for the webinar, the first
of which was<br>
this morning)<br>
<br>
While the <a href="http://nic.cz" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nic.cz</a> Turris
system is well supported, and very capable, I'm not<br>
any influence on big ISP purchasing.<br>
What kind of software support lifespans are ISPs able to
contract?<br>
While many RIPE clueful people know about, deploy and
contribute to openwrt,<br>
it does not seem to show up in a supported way in devices that
I see either<br>
big or small ISPs deploying. The big ones don't seem to
care. The small<br>
ones can't afford to take a risk.<br>
<br>
Years ago, it was the common that an ISP would buy some
12-port switching<br>
device for it's core, and two years later (when it was too
slow), would<br>
migrate it from the core to an access aggregator, and then two
years later,<br>
it might find a few more years service as internal lab
equipment, or being<br>
used for a multi-tenant CPE. I learnt this as a switch
(chip) designer.<br>
Is this still a thing?<br>
<br>
In my more recent (2014-era) hands-on ISP experience, this was
no longer a<br>
thing, because the devices had all become far too
specialized. Maybe SDN is<br>
changing this? Are there best practices in making purchase
decisions that<br>
support this migration of equipment?<br>
{I'm reminded of: <a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjHJKNyoUE"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjHJKNyoUE</a>
}<br>
<br>
Michael J. Oghia <<a href="mailto:mike.oghia@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mike.oghia@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> I'm happy to share an article that Mirjam and I just
published on RIPE Labs<br>
> about sustainable procurement practices:<br>
<br>
> <a
href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/michael_oghia/you-ve-got-the-power-sustainable-procurement-and-the-ripe-community"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://labs.ripe.net/Members/michael_oghia/you-ve-got-the-power-sustainable-procurement-and-the-ripe-community</a><br>
<br>
> I wanted to post it here because I think it's
relevant to this group as<br>
> operators, managers, and others. I'm keen to hear
your thoughts, and<br>
> encourage you to leave comments on the article so we
know how to best take<br>
> this forward (and also gauge interest).<br>
<br>
> Have a good weekend,,<br>
> -Michael<br>
> __________________<br>
<br>
> Michael J. Oghia | Advocacy & Engagement Manager<br>
> Global Forum for Media Development (GFMD <<a
href="https://gfmd.info" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://gfmd.info</a>>)<br>
> Belgrade, Serbia (UTC+2) | Twitter <<a
href="https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia</a>>
|<br>
> LinkedIn <<a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia</a>><br>
> GPG: E95D 2127 0D45 77D3 4D43 4D5A E3BA 6F23 301D
7082<br>
<br>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
> From: Mirjam Kuehne <<a href="mailto:mir@ripe.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mir@ripe.net</a>><br>
> Date: Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 2:15 PM<br>
<br>
> Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
> Buying equipment can have an impact on environmental
sustainability.<br>
> Michael Oghia writes about issues surrounding
sustainable procurement<br>
> and how the RIPE community has the potential to make
a difference:<br>
<br>
> <a
href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/michael_oghia/you-ve-got-the-power-sustainable-procurement-and-the-ripe-community"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://labs.ripe.net/Members/michael_oghia/you-ve-got-the-power-sustainable-procurement-and-the-ripe-community</a><br>
<br>
> Kind regards,<br>
> Mirjam Kühne<br>
> RIPE NCC<br>
<br>
> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
> Alternatives:<br>
<br>
> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> connect-wg mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:connect-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">connect-wg@ripe.net</a><br>
> <a
href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-wg"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-wg</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6
mesh networks [<br>
] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works |
IoT architect [<br>
] <a href="mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mcr@sandelman.ca</a> <a
href="http://www.sandelman.ca/" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.sandelman.ca/</a>
| ruby on rails [<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
connect-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:connect-wg@ripe.net">connect-wg@ripe.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-wg">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-wg</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
J. Scott Marcus
Grossenbuschstrasse 56
53229 Bonn
Germany
Rue Royale 97 99, apartment 7G
1000 Brussels
Belgium
+49 173 5175670 (mobile)
+49 228 5349523 (fixed)
+32 2 8330556 (fixed / active only when I am in Brussels))
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.scottmarcus.eu">www.scottmarcus.eu</a></pre>
</body>
</html>