<div dir="ltr">Dear Michael,<div><br></div><div>Thank you very much for your kind words and for this absolutely critical insight. You're right that the relatively short lifecycle of many devices is indeed a primary driver of the issue. </div><div><br></div><div>These are such great examples as well. If it's not too much trouble for you, would you be able to add this as a comment on the post itself so that we can keep such good comments as yours centralised in one place?</div><div><br></div><div>I don't have much to add to your comments other than fully agreeing with you and wondering if the RIPE community can work together to lobby for changes – assuming that's something we're both able and willing to do.</div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Best,</span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">-Michael</font><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">__________________</font></font></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">Michael J. Oghia | </font></font></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Advocacy & Engagement Manager </span></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Global Forum for Media Development (</span><a href="https://gfmd.info" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" target="_blank">GFMD</a><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">)</span><br></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">Belgrade, Serbia </font></font></font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">(UTC+2)</span><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"> | </font></font></font><font color="#0000ff" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia" target="_blank"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">Twitter</font></font></a></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">|</font></font></span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><font color="#0000ff" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a></font></font></font></div><div><font size="2" face="arial, sans-serif"><div dir="ltr">GPG: E95D 2127 0D45 77D3 4D43 4D5A E3BA 6F23 301D 7082</div></font></div></div></div></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 10:21 PM Michael Richardson <<a href="mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca">mcr@sandelman.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Thank you for this.<br>
I think that one of the key things to reducing e-waste is to keep devices in<br>
productive use longer. The smartphone cycle is largely being driven by<br>
planned obsolescence through lack of software updates. While few of us here<br>
are in the smartphone business, we see the same thing with CPE devices.<br>
<br>
No software updates means poor security, which pushes for replacement of the<br>
devices.<br>
More capable devices can sustain more updates, but cost more up-front,<br>
and there still very little relationship between price paid and number of<br>
years of supported software updates. At least, I believe this anecdotally.<br>
It would be nice if we had survey data to prove or disprove this belief.<br>
Perhaps RIPE along with some of the entities you mentioned might be able to<br>
do a confidential survey of ISPs in order to summarize the results?<br>
<br>
EN 303 645 and upcoming UK legislation requires that the support time for<br>
devices to be made clear at point of purchase. See<br>
<a href="https://www.iotsecurityfoundation.org/keep-software-updated/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.iotsecurityfoundation.org/keep-software-updated/</a> for many<br>
references. (Yes, I'm the presenter for the webinar, the first of which was<br>
this morning)<br>
<br>
While the <a href="http://nic.cz" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">nic.cz</a> Turris system is well supported, and very capable, I'm not<br>
any influence on big ISP purchasing.<br>
What kind of software support lifespans are ISPs able to contract?<br>
While many RIPE clueful people know about, deploy and contribute to openwrt,<br>
it does not seem to show up in a supported way in devices that I see either<br>
big or small ISPs deploying. The big ones don't seem to care. The small<br>
ones can't afford to take a risk.<br>
<br>
Years ago, it was the common that an ISP would buy some 12-port switching<br>
device for it's core, and two years later (when it was too slow), would<br>
migrate it from the core to an access aggregator, and then two years later,<br>
it might find a few more years service as internal lab equipment, or being<br>
used for a multi-tenant CPE. I learnt this as a switch (chip) designer.<br>
Is this still a thing?<br>
<br>
In my more recent (2014-era) hands-on ISP experience, this was no longer a<br>
thing, because the devices had all become far too specialized. Maybe SDN is<br>
changing this? Are there best practices in making purchase decisions that<br>
support this migration of equipment?<br>
{I'm reminded of: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjHJKNyoUE" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjHJKNyoUE</a> }<br>
<br>
Michael J. Oghia <<a href="mailto:mike.oghia@gmail.com" target="_blank">mike.oghia@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I'm happy to share an article that Mirjam and I just published on RIPE Labs<br>
> about sustainable procurement practices:<br>
<br>
> <a href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/michael_oghia/you-ve-got-the-power-sustainable-procurement-and-the-ripe-community" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://labs.ripe.net/Members/michael_oghia/you-ve-got-the-power-sustainable-procurement-and-the-ripe-community</a><br>
<br>
> I wanted to post it here because I think it's relevant to this group as<br>
> operators, managers, and others. I'm keen to hear your thoughts, and<br>
> encourage you to leave comments on the article so we know how to best take<br>
> this forward (and also gauge interest).<br>
<br>
> Have a good weekend,,<br>
> -Michael<br>
> __________________<br>
<br>
> Michael J. Oghia | Advocacy & Engagement Manager<br>
> Global Forum for Media Development (GFMD <<a href="https://gfmd.info" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gfmd.info</a>>)<br>
> Belgrade, Serbia (UTC+2) | Twitter <<a href="https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia</a>> |<br>
> LinkedIn <<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia</a>><br>
> GPG: E95D 2127 0D45 77D3 4D43 4D5A E3BA 6F23 301D 7082<br>
<br>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
> From: Mirjam Kuehne <<a href="mailto:mir@ripe.net" target="_blank">mir@ripe.net</a>><br>
> Date: Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 2:15 PM<br>
<br>
> Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
> Buying equipment can have an impact on environmental sustainability.<br>
> Michael Oghia writes about issues surrounding sustainable procurement<br>
> and how the RIPE community has the potential to make a difference:<br>
<br>
> <a href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/michael_oghia/you-ve-got-the-power-sustainable-procurement-and-the-ripe-community" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://labs.ripe.net/Members/michael_oghia/you-ve-got-the-power-sustainable-procurement-and-the-ripe-community</a><br>
<br>
> Kind regards,<br>
> Mirjam Kühne<br>
> RIPE NCC<br>
<br>
> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
> Alternatives:<br>
<br>
> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> connect-wg mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:connect-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">connect-wg@ripe.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-wg</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [<br>
] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [<br>
] <a href="mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca" target="_blank">mcr@sandelman.ca</a> <a href="http://www.sandelman.ca/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.sandelman.ca/</a> | ruby on rails [<br>
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</blockquote></div>