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Hi Denis,<br>
<br>
I can not believe that you are commenting on my view on how this
should be implemented.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/16 8:29 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk">ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135770">HI Randy</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_136063"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_136064">My last comment on
this thread (probably)....<br>
</div>
<br>
<span></span>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135620"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">The position he
stated was not conducive with his experience. </span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
What do you mean? I have 15+ years experience of using the RIPE
Database, 7 of which I was a colleague of yours at the RIPE NCC. I
commented based on my experience. Is my experience of a lower value
than yours?<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:261884462.79439.1457756972752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
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<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135620"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">He offered no
supporting arguments, just an emotive comment that was
highly critical of something I developed. </span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I did not mean to criticize your work, I just wanted to say that the
implementation could have been done differently.<br>
<br>
As for supporting arguments, I think that I did offered supporting
arguments. I think that abuse-c should have been implemented just as
tech-c or admin-c already are implemented since the creation of the
RIPE Database. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:261884462.79439.1457756972752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135620"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">It is like me saying
the development of a market for selling IP addresses is
poor. Does that statement from me carry any weight? </span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I see no link between the two, other than you trying to attack back.
I have not developed the IPv4 market. <br>
Your statement carries the same weight as mine in a discussion. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:261884462.79439.1457756972752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135620"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">As the developer of
what he claimed to be poor, I think I had the right to point
this out.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
You took it as a personal attack, you should have not as this was
developed by the RIPE NCC and not by the person Denis.. If you felt
offended about my comment, why did you not feel offended about
Gert's comments, which were similar?<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:261884462.79439.1457756972752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135945"><br>
<span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657"></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135855"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">But as Brian said
this is way of the topic now of adding abuse-c to legacy
resources. So I won't make any more comments about the
design of abuse-c in this thread. I did say long ago in this
discussion that the technical aspects of abuse-c should be
the subject of another discussion. But people just kept
coming back with arguments against it.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
So, just comment on this topic then. No need to send several e-mails
'defending' your work. You no longer work at the RIPE NCC and what
has been done, is done.<br>
<br>
From my point of view, abuse-c in legacy objects should be as
mandatory as it is for resource objects registered by the RIPE NCC.<br>
<br>
So, yes, I support this proposal, I would only have done it
differently to begin with.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:261884462.79439.1457756972752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135913" dir="ltr"><br>
<span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657"></span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135946" dir="ltr"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">I wish some of you
would put as much effort into constructive discussions about
the more serious technical issues of the database (including
the route object issue and the data model) as you do into
either condemning me or blanking me out. </span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I was under the impression that my comment was constructive.<br>
I never condemned you nor did I ever try to blank you out, you have
the right to comment just as I do. I just wanted to voice my opinion
that this could have been done differently to start with and I was
actually only agreeing with Gert that abuse-c can be done
differently and (from my point of view) better.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:261884462.79439.1457756972752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
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<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135946" dir="ltr"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">The clear and obvious
refusal by the very small, unrepresentative group of people
on these mailing lists to even engage in any kind of
discussion on an important issue I have raised many times
will not do this community or the RIR system any good in the
long term.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Do not compare apples and pears, one thing is the abuse-c and an
other thing is the route object issue or the greater data model... I
see you are sending dozens of e-mails trying to impose your view on
how the RIPE Database model should work.. Maybe you are right, maybe
things should be done differently. Just come up with a policy
proposal instead of making so much noise on the mailing list. <br>
But maybe you are wrong, and you should also try to take a step back
when you see that the others do not agree with you.<br>
<br>
You are talking about the 'very small, unrepresentative group of
people on these mailing lists'. Well, these are the people that want
to voice their opinion. The others can not be bothered to comment or
participate in these processes, they gladly accept what is decided
on behalf of them by this 'small group'.<br>
<blockquote
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_136052" dir="ltr"><br>
<span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657"></span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_136090" dir="ltr"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">cheers</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_136091" dir="ltr"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135657">denis</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135520"
class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="display: block;"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135518" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135517"
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue
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style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135515" dir="ltr"> <font
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135576" face="Arial"
size="2">
<hr id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135854" size="1"> <b><span
style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Randy
Bush <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:randy@psg.com"><randy@psg.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk">ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
Database WG <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net"><db-wg@ripe.net></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">"anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net"><anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net></a><br>
<b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135689"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135688"
style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, 12 March 2016, 2:53<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [db-wg] Fw: [anti-abuse-wg] objection to RIPE
policy proposal 2016-01<br>
</font> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135519"
class="y_msg_container"><br>
>> Sorry Elvis but you are neither a software
engineer nor a regular<br clear="none">
>> user inputting data into the RIPE Database. So
your unsubstantiated<br clear="none">
>> statement of 'poor' does not carry much weight.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Denis, how do you know how much data I input in the RIPE Database?
You are making assumptions based on a very poor (pun intended)
understanding on what I do.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:261884462.79439.1457756972752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
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<div style="display: block;"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135518" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135517"
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue
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style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1457550322401_135519"
class="y_msg_container">
<div class="yqt0614804650" id="yqtfd98812"><br
clear="none">
> I was not making any decision just expressing an
opinion just as Elvis<br clear="none">
> expressed his opinion on my implementation :) </div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
your opinion was of elvis not his position. this is
called ad homina,<br clear="none">
which you seem to repeat
<div class="yqt0614804650" id="yqtfd43414"><br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
and repeat, and repeat, and repeat....<br>
<br>
let's stop this nonsense and talk about what is really important at
this moment. Should abuse-c be mandatory, optional, or not at all in
the legacy resource objects? I already said above that I do support
this policy proposal but I would like to see it implemented
differently, even if that means that the RIPE NCC may need to change
the way abuse-c was implemented initially.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
elvis<br>
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