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<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I mean one thing that has to be considered is that what I think
of as the portal UI is only available to LIRs, so on a quick
consideration, to me it doesn't really seem to help all that much
to add NRTM to it.</p>
<p>A limit on how many objects could be monitored wouldn't really
make sense imo.</p>
<p>I don't think we want to make it complicated and require a new
protocol as NRTM is a sort of a standard and not just RIPE makes
it available but other IRRs too.</p>
<p>I have not thought this through that much but I think the
following might be good:</p>
<p>- Have a contract with a ToC attached to anyone wanting to use
NRTM.</p>
<p>- Remove the requirement to be a member of the NCC.</p>
<p>So pretty much just a be a member or sign this agreement but with
no further changes, that is my idea.</p>
<p>I am definitely open to arguments, but this was just what seemed
logical to me on a quick thought.<br>
</p>
<p>- Cynthia<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-03-24 01:30, ripedenis--- via
db-wg wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1415974653.16345156.1553387451037@mail.yahoo.com">
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<div>Hi All</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I haven't given this any in depth thought yet so it was
only my initial reaction. The way I was thinking is that we
already have a request for creating groups of SSO credentials
for maintaining objects that could be managed using the portal
UI. Perhaps registering an interest in being notified of
changes to an operational/resource object could also be done
using the portal UI.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If a more general service is wanted there may be other
issues to consider, for example:</div>
<div>-who should be allowed to monitor changes to data in this
way?</div>
<div>-is there a need to know what objects are being monitored
and by who?</div>
<div>-if so only by the object maintainer or public disclosure?</div>
<div>-does anyone need to know anything about those who are
monitoring objects?</div>
<div>-what interface could be used for 'anyone' to register an
interest in monitoring an object?</div>
<div>-how are they going to be notified of changes?</div>
<div>-the original request could be considered as an operational
issue relevant to the purpose of the database as defined by
the Terms and Conditions, if we allow monitoring of any
(operational/resource) object for any reason by anyone are
there any legal implications?</div>
<div>-should there be limits on how many objects anyone can
monitor?</div>
<div>-if so how could that be enforced?</div>
<div>-the NRTM service is only available to members subject to
signing a contract for it's use and accepting it's Terms and
Conditions. By registering an interest in monitoring changes
to a 'substantial' number of objects, it is in effect (a
limited version of) NRTM without a contract</div>
<div>-should there be a contract for anyone wanting to monitor
changes with Terms and Conditions attached?</div>
<div>-...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If the community wants such a general service then all such
issues can be looked at, but it is widening the scope.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div>denis</div>
<div>co-chair DB-WG</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydp92fb7e53yahoo_quoted_4126040489"
class="ydp92fb7e53yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Saturday, 23 March 2019, 23:02:58 CET, Liam Glover
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ldglover20@aol.com"><ldglover20@aol.com></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324">
<div>Hi Dennis,
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>If this were made possible, I’m curious as to why
it would be easier to do as a member only feature? </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>I can see a benefit of this to those who work to
protect users of the internet (and those that might
not use it but could still be impacted) such as law
enforcement and security researchers. For example, it
may be the case that an investigation/research
identifies abuse in relation to registered objects
which could be reported as being identified to be the
result of policy violations. An investigation would
then be impacted by consequent changes as a result of
the policy violations being recognised and immediate
knowledge of the changes would serve to best direct
the course of an investigation. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Liam<br clear="none">
<div class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324yqt4491112009"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324yqt09281">
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
On 23 Mar 2019, at 21:34, ripedenis--- via db-wg
<<a shape="rect" href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">db-wg@ripe.net</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
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class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydpe3100152yahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div>Hi Aris</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>This is what I was thinking you were
looking for. I just wanted to be clear.
Knowing how the database is structured I can
think of ways of doing this, but it would be
for the RIPE NCC to assess feasibility. I
think it may be easier to do it as a service
to members than making it a more general
feature for anyone. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Does anyone else agree on the need for
such a feature? If so perhaps we can create
a new Numbered Work Item.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div>denis</div>
<div>co-chair DB-WG</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyahoo_quoted"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyahoo_quoted_3583358822">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Saturday, 23 March 2019, 19:21:01
CET, Aris Lambrianidis <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:aris.lambrianidis@ams-ix.net" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aris.lambrianidis@ams-ix.net</a>>
wrote: </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612">
<div>Hi Denis,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
We, and other IXPs, create filters
(prefix-lists) for services such as
route servers, by parsing aut-num and
as-set objects from IRR databases,
such as the RIPE database, using tools
such as bgpq3. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Right now, to the best of my
knowledge, the only way to maintain
those filters up to date for all of
our route server peers, is to
periodically poll IRR databases for
changes. <br clear="none">
IMO it would seem more efficient if
the database itself notified us of any
changes, rather than us constantly
asking the same question(s).<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Does this make sense?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
That said, I can also think of other
use cases in which interested parties
having no direct relationship to
certain objects and their maintainers
are interested in finding out of any
changes, <br clear="none">
especially in the field of research,
but let me not delve into this and
keep things simple for the time being.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Kind regards,<br clear="none">
Aris<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<span><a shape="rect"
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk</a>
wrote on 23/03/2019 02:26:</span><br
clear="none">
<div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612yqt8748673239"
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<div>Hi Aris</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Can you clarify one point
about this. Are you saying you
want to be notified if someone
changes their data that you
have no direct relationship
with? So if I maintain a set
object and you are not part of
my company and have no direct
business relationship with me
and I have no idea who you
are, but if I modify this
object you want to be
notified?</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div>denis</div>
<div>co-chair DB-WG</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydpad051f14yahoo_quoted"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydpad051f14yahoo_quoted_3310337349">
<div
style="font-family:'Helvetica
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<div> On Saturday, 23 March
2019, 01:02:48 CET, Aris
Lambrianidis via db-wg <a
shape="rect"
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><db-wg@ripe.net></a>
wrote: </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Wilfried,<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Thank you for the effort
in helping out!<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Unfortunately this will
not do as:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
1. It notifies via an
"out-of-band" method (i.e.
email). This makes<br
clear="none">
it difficult (but not
impossible) to handle with
automation. <br
clear="none">
Nonetheless, the<br
clear="none">
more elegant way would be
through an API leveraging
a push mechanism.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
but more importantly:<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
2. the "notify:" attribute
has to actually be
configured with an address
<br clear="none">
of the<br clear="none">
interested party for it to
work.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
However I'm looking for
mechanism for interested
parties to be notified of<br
clear="none">
any changes in objects
independently to what the
maintainer has configured<br
clear="none">
as a notify address.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Kind regards,<br
clear="none">
Aris<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydpad051f14yqt4670213523"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydpad051f14yqtfd05341"><br
clear="none">
Wilfried Wöber wrote on
22/03/2019 21:50:<br
clear="none">
> Hi Aris!<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Is this what you
are looking for?<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> <a shape="rect"
href="https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/support/documentation/ripe-database-documentation/notifications/9-2-notification-messages/9-2-1-notification-attributes"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/support/documentation/ripe-database-documentation/notifications/9-2-notification-messages/9-2-1-notification-attributes</a><br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> I may be off-track,
of course :-)<br
clear="none">
> Wilfried<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> On 22/03/2019
20:29, Aris Lambrianidis
via db-wg wrote:<br
clear="none">
>> Dear all,<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Back in the
day, RFC1996 introduced
the NOTIFY mechanism in
DNS, which significantly
helped with information
propagation delay,<br
clear="none">
>> as it
facilitated the
transition from a pull
(poll) to a push
(interrupt) model.<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> The problem we,
as AMS-IX, are facing is
quite similar when it
comes to polling the
RIPE database for
changes. This seems<br
clear="none">
>> inefficient.<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Although the
analogy breaks down
quickly, as there are no
RIPE database "clients"
similar to DNS slave
servers<br clear="none">
>> parsing NOTIFY
messages, we would love
to see any RIPE API
created or extended, or
any other mechanism
implemented by which<br
clear="none">
>> a client
"registers interest" for
any objects it wants to
be notified of changes.<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> As a simple
example, if we were to
"register interest"
(e.g. via a REST POST or
PUT method) for the
AS-AMS-IX-SET as-set
object, we would be<br
clear="none">
>>
programmatically
notified whenever the
"last-modified" field of
the as-set was changed.<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Based on the
above, I have 3
questions:<br
clear="none">
>> 1. Does
something like what is
described above already
exist?<br clear="none">
>> 2. If it
doesn't exist, would
others be interested on
such functionality?<br
clear="none">
>> 3. If it
doesn't exist, while
knowing that this is
only a high level
overview of the concept
and many details are
missing, is this
generally feasible?<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Kind regards,<br
clear="none">
>> Aris
Lambrianidis<br
clear="none">
>> AMS-IX<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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