<html><head></head><body><div><div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br></div></div><br><div class="sh-signature"><div class="gmail_signature"><br></div></div></div><br><div class="sh-quoted-content"><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 9:50 PM, Cynthia Revström <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank" class="">db-wg@ripe.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><p class="">I am not sure how you came to that conclusion, the way I read Maria's
email didn't make me come to a conclusion anything like that.
<br></p><p class="">
Maria said:
<br></p><blockquote class=""><p class="">
The RIPE Database is meant to contain specific information for the purposes that are defined in the RIPE Database Terms and Conditions.
<br></p></blockquote><p class="">
The RIPE DB T&C and the DBTF report are not the same and the RIPE DB
T&C could be amended.
<br></p><p class="">
Maria also says:
<br></p><blockquote class=""><p class="">
If the community's interests have changed since then and it is now agreed that geolocation is one of the purposes the RIPE Database must fulfil, this should be decided via the community's processes and reflected in the RIPE Database Terms and Conditions.
<br></p></blockquote><p class="">
I feel like this directly goes against what you are saying, it seems
very clear to me that it is possible to change the purposes.<br></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><br></div><div class=""><br></div><div class="">I'll also note that Maria's initial email said: "personal data that is not required or necessary for the currently defined purposes of the RIPE Database" with "currently defined" written in big, bold, flashy letters. It then continues with the paragraph you have quoted above: "If the community's interests have changed since then and it is now agreed that geolocation is one of the purposes the RIPE Database must fulfil, this should be decided via the community's processes…"<br></div><div class=""><br></div><div class="">I happen to think that Geofeed could easily fall into:<br></div><div class="">"Publishing routing policies by network operators (IRR)" — part of my "routing policy" is that <a href="http://192.0.2.0/24">192.0.2.0/24</a> is in Cologne, and that seems useful for you to know to build your policy as well<br></div><div class="">and / or<br></div><div class="">"Facilitating coordination between network operators (network problem resolution, outage notification etc.)" — you are seeing long latency to <a href="http://192.0.2.0/24">192.0.2.0/24</a>? Geofeeds tells you that that is in Warsaw, so when you contact me you can say something like "200ms seems like a long time to get from Berlin to Warsaw… perhaps we can not route this through Singapore??""<br></div><div class="">and / or <br></div><div class="">"Scientific research into network operations and topology" — you are doing Internet measurements on latency. Why does traceroute to <a href="http://192.0.2.0/24">192.0.2.0/24</a> take 3ms and <a href="http://203.0.113.0/24">203.0.113.0/24</a> take 89ms? Well, Geofeeds tells you that one is in Akureyri and the other is in Lisbon. Seems like worth knowing…<br></div><div class=""><br></div><div class="">But, the bolding of "currently defined" and the "If the community's interests have changed since then…" seems to imply that it is at least worth discussing if we can add Denis suggestion of ""The RIPE Database may contain data that an agreed set of external services may use, require or rely on." and if it does actually need "a resolution by the GM to change the T&C", etc. <br></div><div class=""><br></div><div class="">Even if we successfully argue that Geofeeds fits into one of the above examples, it does seem like having the T&C reflect what people want to be able to use the DB for…<br></div><div class=""><br></div><div class="">W</div><div class=""><br></div><div class=""><br></div><div class="sh-quoted-content"><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><p class="">
<br></p><p class="">
-Cynthia
<br></p><p class="">
<span class="sh-date">On Fri, Jul 29</span>, 2022 at 3:29 AM Ronald F. Guilmette via db-wg
<br>
<<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net" class="">db-wg@<wbr>ripe.<wbr>net</a>> wrote:
</p><blockquote class=""><p class="">
In message <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:CAKw1M3PZPzwJHoNyGrSAY_2azHeZpTw4aVw7GwCLhmT_qt2CiA@mail.gmail.com" class="">CAKw1M3PZPzwJHoNyGrSAY_2azHeZpTw4aVw7GwCLhmT_qt2CiA@<wbr>mail.<wbr>gmail.<wbr>com</a>>
<br>
=?UTF-8?Q?Cynthia_Revstr=C3=B6m?= <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:me@cynthia.re">me@cynthia.re</a>> wrote:
</p><blockquote class=""><p class="">
The purposes could change...
<br></p></blockquote><p class="">
No, they couldn't.
<br></p><p class="">
It appears that the RIPE Database Requirements Task Force issued its
<br>
"final report" sometime late last year, and now the wheels have ground
on further to bring us to the point where RIPE legal has issued an
official proclamation to the effect that everything that does not
comport with the Task Force's final list of defined purposes _must_
be jetisoned and thrown overboard.
</p><p class="">
That would appear to be the short version of where things stand now.
<br></p><p class="">
Based upon the principal of stare decisis, it would seem to be a bit
late in the game to try to roll back any of what has already been
adjudicated.
<br></p><p class="">
Regards,
<br>
rfg
</p><p class="">
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