<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="NL-BE" link="blue" vlink="purple"> <div class="WordSection1"> Dear members,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Ripe has designated a Taskforce to figure this out, please let (us) (them) some time to look into this matter.<o:p></o:p> I am a member of this Taskforce.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Kind regards to you all,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Filip Herman<o:p></o:p> Call us at +32 54 311.400 | E-mail us at <a href="mailto:info@kosmozz.be">info@kosmozz.be</a> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> KOSMOZZ -- <a href="http://www.kosmozz.be/">http://www.kosmozz.be</a> | Member of Internet Service Providers Belgium (<a href="http://www.ispa.be/">http://www.ispa.be</a>)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Simon Talbot Sent: dinsdag 14 februari 2012 13:07 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> I can’t believe this whole bizarre conversation is starting up again. Remember, RIPE is not a regulator, or a commercial entity. It is a not for profit organisation owned by its members, us. It can only raise the funds that are required to fund its operations plus a small amount for reserves. It is not in a position to make pious judgements on who are the “Good Guys” or operate punitive pricing schemes, that is simply not RIPE’s mandate.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Simon<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Simon Talbot Chief Engineer Net Solutions Europe<o:p></o:p> T: 020 3161 6001<o:p></o:p> F: 020 3161 6011<o:p></o:p> <a href="http://www.nse.co.uk/">www.nse.co.uk</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]">[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]</a> On Behalf Of LeaderTelecom Ltd. Sent: 14 February 2012 11:52 AM To: Ben Fitzgerald-O'Connor Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>; Ulf Kieber; Cenk Keylan Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012021401001516] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> >IMHO, Smaller ISP’s can take the initiative with the move to IPV6 perhaps – we all need to > build momentum and start to deploy IPV6 in a big way, and to put in place 6to4 gateways > and other such infrastructure to allow clients connected on IPV6 to access the whole > Internet. More simple way - price for IPv4 will grow extremly fast during this and next year. When price for IPv4 will be more than price of migration to IPv6 - many operators will switch from IPv4 to IPv6. After that cost of IPv4 will goes down very fast. It will be second "Tulip fever". -- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd<o:p></o:p> <div> <div> <div> -- При ответе сохраняйте [Ticket#2012021401001516] в теме письма. -- <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> С уважением,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Алексей Иванов <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Генеральный директор ООО "ЛидерТелеком"<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Тел.: 8(495)778-98-51 <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> URL: <a href="http://www.InstantSSL.su/" target="_blank">http://www.InstantSSL.su/</a> - SSL-сертификаты Comodo URL: <a href="http://verisign.su/" target="_blank">http://verisign.su/</a> - SSL-сертификаты Verisign<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> URL: <a href="http://www.HostingConsult.ru/" target="_blank" title="http://www.HostingConsult.ru/"> http://www.HostingConsult.ru/</a> - Лицензии связи, IP-адреса и AS<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </div> 14.02.2012 15:09 - Ben Fitzgerald-O'Connor написал(а):<o:p></o:p> <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"> <div> Hi All, IMHO, Smaller ISP’s can take the initiative with the move to IPV6 perhaps – we all need to build momentum and start to deploy IPV6 in a big way, and to put in place 6to4 gateways and other such infrastructure to allow clients connected on IPV6 to access the whole Internet. In many ways smaller ISPs have an advantage over the big ISPs who will have huge amounts of work to do in moving from 4 to 6. In marketing we all also need to stop worrying about running out of IPV4 addresses and start to plan and put in IPV6 addresses. Clients should want to move to IPV6 – once moved across, then this work is done for the next 20 years or so. It has to be done, so we may as well get going and promote IPV6 as the ‘New Internet’ which it is. New networks should start on IPV6 – this way they can be ahead of the curve from the start and have a little pain now in learning new ways of doing things but they save a lot of work later by doing this. IPV4 addresses are worth a lot now but in time they will be obsolete as IPV6 becomes mainstream and we all need to work to make that happen. Replacing old IPV4 only equipment with new equipment that supports IPV6 fully is a great sales opportunity. We need to grasp the nettle and move ahead on this. Regards Ben <o:p></o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]">[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]</a> On Behalf Of Cenk Keylan Sent: 14 February 2012 09:57 To: Ulf Kieber; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> Hi Ulf, As IP4 is limited resource sure it must have a fee, else how will the new commers can access to the IP4 while the large ISP’s have millions of unused IP addresses which they have got from Ripe years ago. As a simple argument, we have an ISP in Turkey which even their license is taken back and they have 100K times more IP addresses then we have and nobody is asking tem to give the IP addresses back and they are keeping the IP4 block as the fee they pay for membership is not important then the IP4 block they are keeping in hand. Have a nice day, Cenk Keylan <o:p></o:p> <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="434" style="width:325.3pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="434" style="width:325.3pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <img border="0" width="120" height="62" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCEB1F.D38034D0" alt="Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CB9D2E.07D77BD0"><o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="434" style="width:325.3pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> 3C1B Telekomünikasyon ve Internet Hizmetleri<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="434" style="width:325.3pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> Tepe Prime Plaza B101, Eskişehir Yolu 9.km No:266<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="434" style="width:325.3pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> 06800 Çankaya Ankara Turkiye<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="434" style="width:325.3pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100.0%"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> Tel<o:p></o:p> </td> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> : +90-312-988-0000<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> Direkt<o:p></o:p> </td> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> : +90-312-988-1015<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> Faks<o:p></o:p> </td> <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> : +90-312-241-2888<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="434" style="width:325.3pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <a href="http://www.3c1b.com/" target="_blank">http://www.3c1b.com</a><o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="434" style="width:325.3pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <a href="mailto:info@3c1b.com" target="_blank">info@3c1b.com</a><o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <o:p></o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]" target="_blank">[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]</a> On Behalf Of Ulf Kieber Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 11:47 AM To: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> Have a look at <a href="http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/faq/faq-general-resources" target="_blank"> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/faq/faq-general-resources</a> “IP addresses are a shared public resource and are not for sale.” The fee you pay is not a fee for IP addresses, but a fee for supplied registration services by the RIPE NCC.<o:p></o:p> <div> Please also remember that by making an IP address an accountable ressources and sticking a price tag onto it, taxability in the Netherlands will change, yielding an approx. 25% increase in taxes (and fees). Since I’m a little bit fed up with this discussion now I hereby request to make the fee a real membership fee for the RIPE association; one member, one fee; budget divided by the number of members. Best regards, Ulf Kieber Head of NOC green.ch AG<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p></o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]" target="_blank">[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]</a> On Behalf Of KOSMOZZ - Info Sent: Montag, 13. Februar 2012 19:26 To: Lu Heng; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> Hi Lu, I was thinking the same. Why shouldn’t we all be billed for the amount we are using and may’be pay a fee for the amount that has been reserved and not used? I’ll take this with me to the Taskforce currently brainstorming on Billing matters. Kind regards, Filip Herman <a href="mailto:filip@kosmozz.be" target="_blank">filip@kosmozz.be</a> KOSMOZZ -- <a href="http://www.kosmozz.be/" target="_blank">http://www.kosmozz.be</a> | Member of Internet Service Providers Belgium (<a href="http://www.ispa.be/" target="_blank">http://www.ispa.be</a>) Van: <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]" target="_blank">[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]</a> Namens Lu Heng Verzonden: maandag 13 februari 2012 18:44 Aan: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Onderwerp: [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees Hi Colleagues:<o:p></o:p> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Just had a whim about next year's membership fees, since Ripe will almost certain running out this year, why shouldn't we divided the membership fees as the percentage of the total recourse we have?(mostly IPv4)<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The total amount of Ripe's IPv4 is known, and by end of this year, the total amount of each LIR's IPv4 is known as well.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> So why should we just simpy do a math as LIR total amount address(L)/Ripe's total amount of address(R)*100%*Ripe's total need(TN)=Lir's yearly contribution(C)<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> So make the format simple:<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> C=(L/R*100%)*TN<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Then I think it is "real fair". And as calculate the member fee based on the share of member in the organization's recourse's, it doesn't imply as "selling IP" rumor which has been the main reason we have categories rather than real fair solutions.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> How you think, my colleagues, and this is just my 2 cents thought.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>