<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Yea.... we all know you are *<b>THE</b>* expert about hijacked space ;-)<div><br></div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><div>--</div><div>William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh</div><div><a href="mailto:william@edisglobal.com">william@edisglobal.com</a> | <a href="mailto:william@edis.at">william@edis.at</a> | <a href="http://edis.at/">http://edis.at</a> | <a href="http://as57169.net/">http://as57169.net</a></div><div>EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC</div><div>Graz, Austria</div></div></div></div></span></span>
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<br><div><div>Am 27.07.2012 um 12:14 schrieb Sven Olaf Kamphuis:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>how about the entire class-e space (244/8 and up)<br><br>milnet (21,22,26)<br><br>etc<br><br>all of which not-announced at all.<br><br>but better you just switch to v6 :P<br><br>as for the e-class space, nobody seems to 'claim' it so just use it lol<br><br><br>On Fri, 27 Jul 2012, Paolo Di Francesco wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Hi William<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">WIND uses by far *more* than 5mil IPs - They are the second largest<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">access provider in Italy, in fact they are so short already that they<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">run NAT now...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I guess it's not the only net allocated to wind, but just to make things<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">clear regarding the IPv4-IPv6 situation in Italy:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">1) at the current date each provider MUST allocate one public IPv4 for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">each contract (not customer, contract, which means if you have one<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">company with 50 employees at minimum one public IPv4 must be allocated)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2) NAT (=multiple customers beyond one public IP) with some form of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"connection tracking" has been proposed, but yet not accepted by the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Italian government<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3) the big telco told us that dual stack cannot be done and they will<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">never implement it so far because:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3.a) there is no mobile device well supporting IPv6<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3.b) IPv6 traffic is insignificant, the traffic is only IPv4 (well if<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">they do not provider IPv6 to customers I see some barriers to have IPv6<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">traffic...)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3.c) IPv6 WILL NOT HAPPEN for a looooong time, and they will NOT provide<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">dual stack<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3.d) xDSL modems do not support IPv6 (maybe they should change modem<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">brand, I don't know)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3.e) operating systems are not supporting IPv6<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We asked them to give dual stack, but the message that I have heard is:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">no only IPv4 and NAT is the solution for the future, then maybe in some<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">years (5? 10? 20??) we will reconsider IPv6<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Therefore I see small and medium ISP running dual stack to be "future<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ready" while large operators in Italy will run IPv4 and NAT for a long,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">long time.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Now if RIPE will consider a dual fee for IPv4 and IPv6 I guess that it<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">will not help small LIRs to implement IPv6 and that will be a huge<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">damage for the whole community.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">It will be funny that small ISP are implementing IPv6 and maybe paying<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">more than big telcos.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Regarding the IPv4-IPv6 policy, my personal opinion is that it's a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">commercial war: the longer IPv6 dual stack or transition will take, the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">better will be to keep the market closed and the current positions<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">untouched.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Should we consider an extra fee if you do NOT use IPv6 for customers????<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">But as I said, we should split the two discussions: one regarding IPv4<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and IPv6 allocation (and mistakes of the past, when nobody knew what the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">hell was an IP) and another one regarding RIPE fees. Not saying those<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">two things are not related just saying that IPv4 re-allocation policy<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for huge systems should be taken into serious consideration<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">As a last note: if Wind and other operators are using NAT and they are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">happy with that (instead of implementing dual stack and migration<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mechanisms) then they DO NOT NEED IPv4, and then then can give it back<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to RIPE. If with one IPv4 you can put 1,000-10,000 customers, hey we are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">60 millions in Italy we need few public IPv4 for big LIRS, right?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Best regards<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-- <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Ing. Paolo Di Francesco<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Level7 s.r.l. unipersonale<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sede operativa: Largo Montalto, 5 - 90144 Palermo<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">C.F. e P.IVA 05940050825<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Fax : +39-091-8772072<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">assistenza: (+39) 091-8776432<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">web: <a href="http://www.level7.it/">http://www.level7.it</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>