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    First off; I'm glad someone is trying to keep the conversation on
    track rather than allowing it to degrade further into the politics
    of IPv4 allocation restrictions <i>(and it is pure politics at this
      stage)</i>.<br>
    <br>
    As Paul points out the goal of this discussion is to reduce abuse of
    an extant policy, not a new one, and since the goal of said extant
    policy is to encourage IPv6 adoption I would agree with applying all
    of the below. But if we have to choose only one option then I'd vote
    for option 5 as it looks the most effective. <br>
    <br>
    -Tim<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/02/16 23:13, Paul Civati wrote:
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:706312EA-E12C-4444-B290-9F39BD314478@racksense.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">

So going back to the original question really, which was multiple LIR accounts..

This has diverged into how/why people are taking them and that is that people
want to abuse the rules around limited remaining IPv4 resources set aside
for new entrants.

So we can disincentivise through cost, admin and technical approaches.

1. Time delay before a new LIR can be merged with another, 12 months?
This seems a reasonable option, why would anyone create a brand new
LIR and then want to merge it <12 months.

2. Make additional fees for multiple LIRs under one organisation, if you
want it fine, but pay for the additional admin burden.

3. Additional fees for six months once an LIR is merged.  May seem
drastic but if people are abusing current rules then you have to combat
them.

4. If an LIR is opened it has AS and IP4/6, there should be some kind of 
rule about this IP space having been visible through that AS number before 
a merger is permitted.  I am thinking about creating technical admin burden 
for people creating many LIRs, so that they will have to go through the 
technical hassle of setting up configurations before doing a merger,
ie. even if you are willing to pay extra fees to open 10x LIR to get
space then also be prepared to set up 10x BGP configs for it.

Not completely related to the original point, but if you want to reduce 
motivation for people to still rely on IPv4 straight off then:

5. New LIR opens and is issued with IPv6 space immediately, then and only
once that IPv6 space is up and visible in routing tables can you apply for
your IPv4 space for that LIR.  If you are not ready to run IPv6 at LIR opening,
will you ever be?

Just throwing out some ideas, may not be perfect of course..

Regards,
Paul.

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
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        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <td width="266">
              <div align="left"><a href="http://liquidns.com"><img
                    id="liquid" title="" alt=""
                    src="cid:part1.01070207.03010801@treestle.com">
                </a></div>
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            <td colspan="3">
              <h1 style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
                font-size: 14px; color: #141414;">Tim Armstrong </h1>
              <h2 style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
                color: #787878; font-size: 12px; font-weight: 100;">Technical
                Director<br>
                Treestle B.V.<br>
                Goudsesingel 78, 3011 KD, <br>
                Rotterdam, The Netherlands<br>
                Chamber of Commerce: 59116803<br>
                Office: � +31 (0) 10 3400 720<br>
                Mobile: � +31 (0) 61 7544 472</h2>
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                color: #787878; font-size: 12px; font-weight: 100;"
                align="left"><img title="" alt="" class="h_line"
                  src="cid:part3.03010207.03000900@treestle.com"
                  height="1" width="20"><br>
                <br>
                Treestle runs one of the world's fastest global managed
                DNS platforms at�<a href="http://www.liquidns.com/"
                  target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span lang="EN-GB">www.liquidns.com</span></a><span
                  lang="EN-GB">�and <br>
                  offers LiquiD AutoScaler, a website-user centric
                  autoscaling solution at </span><a
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                  target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span lang="EN-GB"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.liquidautoscaler.com">www.liquidautoscaler.com</a></span></a>.<br>
                <br>
                <img title="" alt="" class="h_line"
                  src="cid:part3.03010207.03000900@treestle.com"
                  height="1" width="20"> </h2>
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              <h2 style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
                color: #787878; font-size: 12px; font-weight: 100;"
                align="left">Independent software vendor for:</h2>
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href="https://apps.db.ripe.net/search/lookup.html?source=ripe&key=ORG-TB77-RIPE&type=organisation"><img
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                  height="100" width="1"></a></td>
            <td rowspan="2" width="182">
              <h2 style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
                color: #787878; font-size: 12px; font-weight: 100;"
                align="left">Member of:
                <p><a
href="https://apps.db.ripe.net/search/lookup.html?source=ripe&key=ORG-TB77-RIPE&type=organisation"><img
                      src="cid:part9.08060909.05000900@treestle.com"
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              <div align="left"><a
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                    alt="" title="" border="0" height="60" width="140"></a>
                <a
                  href="https://cloudstore.interoute.com/LiquiDAutoScalerBasic"><img
                    id="interoute"
                    src="cid:part13.07000909.07030102@treestle.com"
                    alt="" title="" border="0" height="64" width="112"></a><a
href="https://liquidautoscaler.com/documentation/other/quickstart"><img
                    src="cid:part15.09050908.08000307@treestle.com"
                    alt="" id="cloudstack" title="" border="0"
                    height="28" width="150"></a></div>
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