<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> I'm concerned about the direction this discussion is taking because it seems to be focusing on the behaviour of a tiny minority of members. The majority of us would welcome the ability to obtain another /22 or two for legitimate purposes. Any changes made to combat practices of a tiny minority of members may have unintended consequences for many and impact on small LIR's like mine. Think long and hard before legislating. Thanks Ian <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/02/2016 15:34, Cahit Eyigünlü wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:sl979h8d0m8isetjupja1g3q.1455723275796@email.android.com" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> And probably they offer to Block multi accounts because they earn too much But we are paying for nembership not the ip addresses so they need to give back the ip addresses to ripe whatsapp they already never owned forever by theme Sony Xperia™ akıllı telefonumdan gönderildi ---- Jivko Jelev şunu yazdı ---- <div>I agree ... Big Lir make alot of money to rent ipv4 space !!!! this problem must be resove !!! <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17-Feb-16 5:27 PM, Cahit Eyigünlü wrote: </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> Why do you think this is A problem? If you have free space you need to share it not sell or rent This is Why there is too many accounts multiple Lots of company holding ip addresses more then they need!! Sony Xperia™ akıllı telefonumdan gönderildi ---- Olorin Henderson şunu yazdı ---- <div>That isn't practical. <div> </div> <div>What happens if an entity with an LIR account is purchased by another entity with an LIR account; they would have to merge or move IPs from one to another. Your proposed policy would prohibit this, therefore complicating or potentially prohibiting the sale and acquisition of web hosts.</div> <div> </div> <div>Kindest regards, <div class="mb_sig"> -- Olorin Henderson, Operations Director, <img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://www.cloudunboxed.net/i/email-logo.png" alt="Cloud Unboxed Limited" border="0" width="220"> w: <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="www.cloudunboxed.net" href="http://www.cloudunboxed.net/">cloudunboxed.net</a> | e: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:olorin.henderson@cloudunboxed.net"></a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:olorin.henderson@cloudunboxed.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:olorin.henderson@cloudunboxed.net">olorin.henderson@cloudunboxed.net</a></a> | t: +44 (0)33 0088 2444 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended for the addressed individual or entity only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then discard this e-mail. Unauthorized copying, sharing and distributing of this e-mail is prohibited. The content in this e-mail does not necessarily represent the views of the company. The addressee should check all attachments for malware; the company makes no representation as regards the absence of malware in attachments to this e-mail. </div> <blockquote class="history_container" type="cite" style="border-left-style:solid; border-width:1px; margin-top:20px; margin-left:0px; padding-left:10px"> On 17/02/2016 15:18:41, Kampen, Niels van <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nvkampen@sligro.nl"><nvkampen@sligro.nl></a> wrote: Shouldn't this problem be solved on a higher level (IANA)? Or create a workgroup open to the other RIR's as well so we can solve this globally? Finding a solution that doesn't mean a huge increase in administrative work for the NCC or making the request procedure almost impossible for new LIR's is not a solution. Could be as easy as making the initial /22 of a LIR non-transferable? If you want more IP space to rent/lease/sell you can buy additional space from the RIR or other brokers. Regards Niels -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: members-discuss [<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>] Namens Lu Heng Verzonden: woensdag 17 februari 2016 15:43 Aan: Sebastian Wiesinger CC: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Onderwerp: Re: [members-discuss] [comms] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple Guys: take the wealth of rich people, distribute it amount everybody, and everybody get fair share and working for a central planning economy, does it sound familiar if you happen to be from one of communist countries?(I heard that quite often as I was born in one of communist countries, although if it is still communist are very debatable.) Central administration and central planning will require a large central administrative power with enforce body, Ripe NCC does not have the power either has the ability to enforce such thing, even it does have such power, history has told us such thing really doesn't work. Centralised resource planning only results corruption and less effective economy. The founder of Ripe community, Rob, alone with many other original starter Ripe community, said very wisely, "Ripe NCC are only a bookkeeper". and still till today I believe such fundamental value are very important to the very existence of RIR system, without claiming any power, therefore left RIPE NCC doing what it should be doing, be a registry and record resource whom using it, while protecting itself from any management/administration function(in which means power), so no government can come ask RIPE NCC to enforce anything, or even worse, seeking control of RIPE NCC. Please, leave RIPE NCC to be a simple book keeper and if you really wants to enforce something, go to your local government and propose a legislation, banning IPv4 transfer and ask big guy give you their unused IPv4 for example, just like the some government in history taken wealth from rich people give to the poor ones, they are the enforcing body, and they have the ability to re-distribute any resource they want. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Sebastian Wiesinger wrote: > * iODC Hostmaster [2016-02-17 15:18]: >> Why it is bad to sell IP's? > >> Take a look at the RIPE market... Prices are INSANE, and RIPE is >> being maximum abused by "brokers" - that's why it is bad, that IP's >> can be sold, nevertheless it is the reason why it should not be >> possible to sell! > > We had this discussion even before there *was* a transfer market. IPs > WILL get transferred, money WILL be paid. The only thing that RIPE NCC > did was to make it possible to document these transfers in the > database. Before that there was chaos. There is practically NOTHING > the NCC can do about the transfers happening. We had this discussions > long ago. We saw it coming. People ignored IPv6. This is the result. > > I'm so tired talking about this. IPv4 is over and done and because > people ignored this for a decade we're forced to fight against other > people trying to make money from the last pool that was explicitly > created to allow newcomes to enter a market that ONLY exists because > others decided they did not want to invest into IPv6. > > Regards > > Sebastian > > -- > noris network AG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 - D-90471 Nürnberg Tel > +49-911-9352-1335 - Fax +49-911-9352-100 > > <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.noris.de">http://www.noris.de</a> - The IT-Outsourcing Company > > Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel - Vorsitzender des > Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689 > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- -- Kind regards. Lu ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. **************************************************************************** Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen. **************************************************************************** Sligro Food Group werkt aan een CO2-reductie van 20% in 2020. Wilt u meer weten over ons MVO-beleid en doelstellingen? Kijk op <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.sligrofoodgroup.nl"> www.sligrofoodgroup.nl</a> **************************************************************************** ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. </blockquote> </div> </div> <table style="border-collapse:collapse; width:100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td rowspan="5" border="0" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="70" width="250"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://https://www.spd.net.tr/" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" title="SPDNet Telekomünikasyon A.S. Logo" alt="SPDNet Telekomünikasyon A.S. Logo" src="https://www.spd.net.tr/panel/images/logo.png" border="0" height="70" width="250"></a> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="20"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="border-left:1px solid Black; padding-left:20px" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="90" valign="top"> Cahit Eyigünlü SPDNet Telekomünikasyon A.S. +908508409773 75. Yl Mahallesi 5301 Sk No:24/A - MANSA 45100 <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://https://www.spd.net.tr/" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_web_black.png" title="Website" alt="WebsiteGB" style="border:none; margin-top:5px" height="16" width="77"></a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="email" href="mailto:cahit.eyigunlu@spd.net.tr" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_email_black.png" title="email" alt="email" style="border:none" height="16" width="77"></a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://https://www.linkedin.com/company/spdnet" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_linkedin_logo.png" title="LinkedIn button" alt=":inkedIn button" style="border:none" height="16" width="60"></a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/NetSpd" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_twitter_logo.png" title="Twitter button" alt="Twitter button" style="border:none" height="16" width="16"></a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.facebook.com/SpdNetTR" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_facebook_icon.png" title="Facebook button" alt="Facebook button" style="border:none" height="16" width="16"></a> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="70"> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> Bu e-posta kişiye özel olup, gizli bilgiler içeriyor olabilir. Eğer bu e-posta size yanlışlıkla ulaşmışsa, içeriğini hiç bir şekilde kullanmayınız ve ekli dosyaları açmayınız. Bu e-posta virüslere karşı anti-virüs sistemleri tarafından taranmıştır. Ancak SPDNET, bu e-postanın - virüs koruma sistemleri ile kontrol ediliyor olsa bile - virüs içermediğini garanti etmez ve meydana gelebilecek zararlardan doğacak hiçbir sorumluluğu kabul etmez. <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <pre>---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Jivko Jelev General Manager ITNS Global - Bulgaria T/F +359 2 49 66 555 US/T +1 4044001713 M +359 88 5555122,+359 87 8553844 e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:j.jelev@itnsglobal.eu">j.jelev@itnsglobal.eu</a></pre> </div> <table style="border-collapse:collapse; width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td rowspan="5" border="0" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="70" width="250"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://https://www.spd.net.tr/" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" title="SPDNet Telekomünikasyon A.S. Logo" alt="SPDNet Telekomünikasyon A.S. Logo" src="https://www.spd.net.tr/panel/images/logo.png" border="0" height="70" width="250"></a> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="20"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="border-left: 1px solid Black; padding-left: 20px;" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="90" valign="top"> Cahit Eyigünlü SPDNet Telekomünikasyon A.S. +908508409773 75. Yl Mahallesi 5301 Sk No:24/A - MANSA 45100 <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://https://www.spd.net.tr/" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" style="border: none; margin-top: 5px;" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_web_black.png" title="Website" alt="WebsiteGB" height="16" width="77"></a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="email" href="mailto:cahit.eyigunlu@spd.net.tr" target="_blank" attr="email"> <img moz-do-not-send="true" style="border: none;" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_email_black.png" title="email" alt="email" height="16" width="77"></a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://https://www.linkedin.com/company/spdnet" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" style="border: none;" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_linkedin_logo.png" title="LinkedIn button" alt=":inkedIn button" height="16" width="60"></a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/NetSpd" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" style="border: none;" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_twitter_logo.png" title="Twitter button" alt="Twitter button" height="16" width="16"></a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.facebook.com/SpdNetTR" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" style="border: none;" src="http://www.companysig.com/images/but_facebook_icon.png" title="Facebook button" alt="Facebook button" height="16" width="16"></a> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="70"> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> Bu e-posta kişiye özel olup, gizli bilgiler içeriyor olabilir. Eğer bu e-posta size yanlışlıkla ulaşmışsa, içeriğini hiç bir şekilde kullanmayınız ve ekli dosyaları açmayınız. Bu e-posta virüslere karşı anti-virüs sistemleri tarafından taranmıştır. Ancak SPDNET, bu e-postanın - virüs koruma sistemleri ile kontrol ediliyor olsa bile - virüs içermediğini garanti etmez ve meydana gelebilecek zararlardan doğacak hiçbir sorumluluğu kabul etmez. <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <pre wrap="">---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</pre> </blockquote> </body> </html>