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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/16/2016 07:26 AM, Prager-IT e.U.
wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Daniel
Pearson�<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net" target="_blank">daniel@privatesystems.net</a>></span>�wrote:<br>
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<div>Sorry to say but I really don't think you are
seeing the picture.<br>
<br>
I fail to see how dropping yearly fee's, increasing
'setup' fee's will accomplish anything. Perhaps spend
some time and do the math out and put an actual
outline with some numbers behind it and then match
that upto the required budget to operate RIPE.<br>
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<div>Charging every member for the amount of resources they
are using will bring back some fairness in an inherently
unfair system.</div>
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<br>
Business is not fair, it is a competitive market place. Hell, life
isn't fair. Are you going to cry foul if you sell chicken and
someone opens a chicken shop next door. Is it fair if either one of
you gets more customers than the other or do you make the police
count how many customers go into each shop and divide them up? <br>
<br>
�
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<div><br>
You specifically say this:<span class="gmail-"><br>
<br>
"After the membership has approved the new plan via
a majority vote there will be an excess in money
available due to the higher setup fee. The price
will be determined by availability."<br>
<br>
</span>RIPE having an 'excess' of money, will simply
mean that money is returned to its members. The price
is not determined by availability of resources, it is
determined primarily by the operating costs of RIPE
its self.�<br>
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<div>Under my plan the RIPE NCC will use that excess money to
buy back resources from RIPE NCC members who are willing to
give back some of their resources.</div>
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<div>The amount of resources members are willing to give back
will influence the price the RIPE NCC would be willing to
pay from the excess funds.</div>
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<br>
RIPE cannot and will not do this, let me explain why. According to
RIPE, and most RIR's, their stance is that you do not "own" the IP
addresses that are given to you, and that they can technically take
them back at any time. So now, you are wanting to pay people to get
these addresses back. This will contradict every agreement &
contract with every LIR out there in RIPE and effectively make the
statement that you do not own the IP addresses null and void. So
congratulations, you just turned everyone's IP space into Legacy
owned IP space and that's what I'd argue in court and probably win.
<br>
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<div>�</div>
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<div><br>
Specifically lets look at the Articles of Association
that govern RIPE.<br>
<br>
<h3>Article 3 � The Association: Objective</h3>
<p>The objective of the Association is to perform
activities for the benefit of the Members, primarily
activities that the Members need to organize as a
group. This object can be sub-divided into the
following activities:</p>
<ul>
<li>Registration Activities related to the role of
the Association as Regional Internet Registry;</li>
<li>Co-ordination Activities, including the support
of the stable operation of the Internet;</li>
<li>Administration Activities, including all regular
reports and administrative support as well as all
other general administrative tasks which cannot be
attributed to a specific activity;</li>
<li>New Activities, including all activities which
are necessary to react to the rapidly changing
world of the Internet; and to do all that is
connected therewith or may be conducive thereto,
all this in the widest sense of the word.�<b>Making
profit is not an object of the Association.</b></li>
</ul>
<br>
So if RIPE cannot make a profit, then it is impossible
for it to set fee's so high that would make any impact
and thus limits the whole game to a 21,000,000 million
EUR bubble, which is TINY compared to some of the
power house IT companies budgets.�<br>
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<div>If the RIPE NCC wants to protect the remaining resources
the setup fee needs to be increased either way, it is as
simple as that. As I already said the excess amount will be
used to buy back resources from members that are willing to
give them back. Buying back resources instead of dispersing
excess money will benefit future LIRs as they may still be
able to get a small amount of IPv4 resources and make the
entire system more efficient if you provide LIRs with unused
resources an easy way to give back some resources and
provide them with a reimbursement.</div>
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<br>
I'm sorry but this is a pipe dream. Open market IPv4 addresses are
already reaching quite high costs, nearing 10-12 EUR per IP. So,
lets say RIPE gets a deal and buys back IP space at 10 EUR an IP.�
With their excess budget that was refunded, they could have bought
back, what, a /13 if they are lucky. Of course now that RIPE is
buying addresses back, the price will likely go up even more, as
will fee's from RIPE. <br>
<br>
You basically created an endless market loop that will eat its self
into destruction. <br>
<br>
RIPE should not and cannot buy IP space, I guarantee something like
this will end very badly for RIPE, likely violates god knows how
many different charters and agreements between governments, RIR's
IANA etc. <br>
<br>
<br>
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<div>Kind Regards,</div>
<div>Stefan Prager</div>
<div>--</div>
<div>Prager-IT e.U.</div>
<div>VAT Number: ATU69773505</div>
<div>Austrian Company Register: 438885w</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Skype: Prager-IT</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:contact@prager-it.com">contact@prager-it.com</a></div>
<div>+43 680 300 99 80</div>
<div>+44 20 376 962 11</div>
</div>
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<pre wrap="">----
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mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a>
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</pre>
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