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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Whomever 104.254.252.60 &
2a04:a9c0::42 are, that's not very nice trying to unsubscribe me
from this list :)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04/13/2018 06:32 AM, Daniel Pearson wrote:<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">As my grandfather use to say. "If it
ain't broke, don't fix it".<br>
<br>
I know it makes everyone feel good to have these pointless
discussions and if that's what it takes by all means continue
on, I do find them entertaining, but please, join reality. End
of the day this is business, it costs money. Considering no rate
increases and the fact that most years we've had a surplus so
who cares if they blow a little money on hookers and coke, it's
ok. RIPE provides us a good, reliable service and prompt turn
around time on any requests. As someone else has said, try
working with other RIRs. <br>
<br>
Anyways, carry on.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04/13/2018 02:03 AM, Huf Oliver, CI-A Rolls-Royce Power
Systems AG wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">William,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">while I don't feel competent enough to
comment on the first part of your reply, I fully second
the last paragraph!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Oliver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b>Von:</b>
members-discuss [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>William<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 13. April 2018 02:16<br>
<b>An:</b> Aleksey Bulgakov <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><aleksbulgakov@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>; <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:agm@ripe.net" moz-do-not-send="true">agm@ripe.net</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce]
[GM] RIPE NCC Annual Report 2017 and Proposed RIPE NCC
Charging Scheme 2019<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Must
be some joke (i hope at least).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Russia
does not have staff needs available unless you pay
excessive (skilled are in fact leaving anyway, we have
a bunch of Russians working from Cyprus nowadays),
Russia is not politically stable (a stable autocracy
is not politically stable overall) and the currency
fluctuates between basically worthless and entirely
worthless.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Government
control is excessive, freedom of business is low,
growth is low, legal security is nil.... plus one more
round of UN sanctions could cut off any RIPE member
from paying invoices entirely.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Russia
is in no way suitable for RIPE (and in fact, Bulgaria
has less tax than Russia anyway + a much more simple
tax system + EU).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">In
case of no joke... after speaking with some LIRs we'll
boycott any attempts to move the NCC out of the EU and
i assume from the statutes this requires a full member
vote which is extremely unlikely to pass for Russia
(or in practice anyone else).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William
Weber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On
Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 01:39, Aleksey Bulgakov <<a
href="mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">aleksbulgakov@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><<a
href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">AFAIK,
social charges paid by the employer in
NL are around 28%, so it's less than
3000 euros per month per staff member of
income.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">And
that's before social charges paid by
the employee (18%), so it's less than
2500€ of net income per staff.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I
would not judge if that's high or low
in NL, but that's not 4000€<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">So,
we can move the RIPE office to another
country, with less salary numbers. E.g. there
are the salary numbers approximately 1500€ in
Russia, including tax 13%. With social tax 30%
the salary numbers are 2000€ in Moscow. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">What
do you think about it? Me and my colleagues,
who wrote here earlier, are ready to help the
community with relocation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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