<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body bgcolor="white" lang="FI" link="blue" vlink="purple"> <div class="WordSection1"> Hello<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This discussion sidetracked to salaries and even to moving of Ripe to other country. I atleast would not support such idea as its very rare to do that successfully and salaries and other expenses are always related to the ”level” where particular country is and that is always part of the equation. One cant expect to have same level of political and judical stability in a developing country than in a country like Netherlands. (Just want to clarify so that no one got impression that I was supporting this)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Interesting part in my opinion is for members to understand where investments are made. I think this was the idea of the discussion in the beginning.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> We have indeed a situation where it would be bad idea to decrease membership fees because demand and supply is also affecting this part of the question. Therefore it is quite hard do decrease income of RIPE. Rather pricing should be increased. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Instead of discussing decreasing funding or moving RIPE it would be more important to discuss where money want to be spent. It is true that this part is allready partly done but the discussion did arise from rather large expenses that where not very openly documented. But afterwards Axel also did provide link to the budget and that did open again more of the expenses. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> One thing is also to have a 10-20 year plan because soon new membership fees will end as IPV4 is exhausted. This means that the redistribution of profits will end and there seems to be no policy of getting huge buffer of funds to cover the future. In my opinion it might be even better to increase buffers, increase membership fees and make the major financial contributions to specific areas voted most important by the members. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But i also agree that in general micromanagement by a email list is not going to work but its good to have refreshing discussion of the topics. And there is a yearly meeting also where these things can be addressed 😊<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Best regareds,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Hans Govenius<o:p></o:p> DevNet Oy <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> Lähettäjä: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Puolesta Jaleel A. Mohammad Lähetetty: maanantai 16. huhtikuuta 2018 12.38 Vastaanottaja: Robert Vojcik <robert.vojcik@livesport.eu>; members-discuss@ripe.net Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] RIPE NCC Annual Report 2017 and Proposed RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2019<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Dear All,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> With respect to all, I received a lot of emails on moving the service and unfortunately I read few of them only. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I strongly agree with below comments made by Robert, my concern is “ the Service” my point is very clear that the Service is most important for my organization & in deed for all of us. Therefor my understanding is not to compromise to move the organization only for low expenses.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> It’s all about finance and expenses, so surely there will be a way to come out of this situation and we all will support to fix this issue.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Regard’s <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <img width="166" height="36" style="width:1.7291in;height:.375in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D3D66B.8012B230" alt="Description: SP-Logo"><o:p></o:p> Engr. Jaleel Ahmed B.E. CCIE(W), HCIE(W), APMG, ITIL(v3)<o:p></o:p> IT-Infrastructure Department<o:p></o:p> Office: +966 1 2897109<o:p></o:p> Mobile: +966 506878379<o:p></o:p> Email: <a href="mailto:jahmed@sp.com.sa">jahmed@sp.com.sa</a><o:p></o:p> P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need it<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>] On Behalf Of Robert Vojcik Sent: 16 April 2018 11:05 To: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] RIPE NCC Annual Report 2017 and Proposed RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2019<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Hi all, <o:p></o:p> I'd like to contribute to this discussion.<o:p></o:p> I believe that when it comes to save the money, moving organization always leads to some things<o:p></o:p> <ul type="disc"> <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"> moving organization is very expensive itself<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"> if moving is becouse of cost saving, there will be always big drop of quality of services, we can see it on many other companies<o:p></o:p></li></ul> I believe there is a lot of experts in Ripe NCC and they must be appropriately paid. <o:p></o:p> If Ripe NCC needs more finances for it's staff or projects etc, I'm for increasing the charge. It's the most effective way to solve the problem. <o:p></o:p> We also don't want to move such important organization beouse of cost savings. We want progress, new projects, better performance and more secure and free internet and that is no cheap tasks.<o:p></o:p> If Ripe need more financess, create some finance analysis and then rise up the charge.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> On 12.4.2018 17:14, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:<o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div> <<a href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</a>>:<o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> AFAIK, social charges paid by the employer in NL are around 28%, so it's less than 3000 euros per month per staff member of income. <o:p></o:p> <div> And that's before social charges paid by the employee (18%), so it's less than 2500€ of net income per staff.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> I would not judge if that's high or low in NL, but that's not 4000€<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> So, we can move the RIPE office to another country, with less salary numbers. E.g. there are the salary numbers approximately 1500€ in Russia, including tax 13%. With social tax 30% the salary numbers are 2000€ in Moscow. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> What do you think about it? Me and my colleagues, who wrote here earlier, are ready to help the community with relocation.<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p></o:p> <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>members-discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><a href="https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Z5DC_5LNXVchE0RAIbFK4XcnqPTWR8MufcXBcDSKMTOI-SC4lg_cXSMhiuO7lBgIbHJQdwvmGCe8hazaiyG7xfa5bYgVyn0AGoPefgzFRtS_Oy0HcUVJwjrABQgCcohfvz6wHu7Sqrv4QzajHyHupvnolfVHuyy2PI5h4oFEoVMjUBe88dtT3-2jZv1nLAX32wpwyy0u2DuFX4FWUfKphc_x-bGeKQ4jO90U1ovqSLsdpYpwKk5wPdhP3Byx6iGZ9n9OORJbWtzhchIeng53kA/https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Unsubscribe: <a href="https://secure-web.cisco.com/1hdiNuR94g0wQ27b7XNF-n74ue2DT7mAyLyoUl-8SWsJ03HVApJEg8Hh23aG5Xpk6stk1jRE5aZozwPkzENnoDN2zr4NZ-643BzNjIXJ7KBXLJhY_kdUob744aPdIfh6sUwo3fALyAUFirz638lFbqjcfhfbPETcN49NhQvyauQDp-Pl7D93Y0XQTMouykUCelCqEypqE7peSZqRZMbUvsKDCpxZPG1l-TeEt3JGDjYJxMz1Dtnijpt2VVSwRljykLXiezjHahbFlqI6P2XTBYQ/https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Frobert.vojcik%2540livesport.eu">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/robert.vojcik%40livesport.eu</a><o:p></o:p></pre> </blockquote> <o:p> </o:p> <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Robert Vojčík,<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Systems Specialist<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre>+420 733 351 088<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><a href="mailto:robert.vojcik@livesport.eu">robert.vojcik@livesport.eu</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre>Livesport s.r.o.<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Aspira Business Centre<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Bucharova 2928/14a, 158 00 Praha 13<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre><a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1FiWe2n9GgUb65S9JyYjkfx4lLJcyvW1W00dIEykua3-7XC8kAXSMNwyKirFfpxfWFE4X9tzbq1atvHp6tj1uNffqEq4H7beC7Bn9DykyxYTe7jRBsAoY8B9tTiPoWWDVgk5wIAHyXPDpoTobuIVNDToAEzO6PvIJaQCLwI2bwpCZlspzpWzU9EvCiBO6ZPwewhCX9wrKkX2ZrgKecu_FqQkD6yVSFvHQ02mpDLhLbeD6CGtdbSoRuScHJjl-dFVYgPDt7Z4KhGZuzlyIcxysdQ/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livesport.eu">www.livesport.eu</a><o:p></o:p></pre> <o:p> </o:p> <div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"> <hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"> </div> Disclaimer: This email has been sent from Saudi Post Organization. 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