<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1>Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ion.rebeja%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/</a> <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>With kind regards<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Abel Wisman<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Head IT Kanta Enterprises 020 8842 2011<o:p></o:p>Head IT Faiview Hotels 014 3853 3012<o:p></o:p>DDI 020 3515 0015 / Mob 078 1595 4286<o:p></o:p>General Support 0330 445 445 1<o:p></o:p>Maitre’d specific support 033 0445 445 4<o:p></o:p><a href="http://support.a3le.com/">http://support.a3le.com</a> support ticket system; your first step!<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Ion Rebeja Sent: 14 May 2018 14:05 To: Office MEGs <office@megsolutions.com> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div>Folks, please remove my email from this list!<o:p></o:p><div>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p><div><div>On Mon, May 14, 2018, 15:38 Office MEGs <<a href="mailto:office@megsolutions.com">office@megsolutions.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div>Me too please.<o:p></o:p>Thank you! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: members-discuss [mailto:<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>] On Behalf Of Gjurovski Vladimir Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 2:05 PM To: 'John Jeffery' <<a href="mailto:johnjeffery@e-wire.co.uk" target="_blank">johnjeffery@e-wire.co.uk</a>>; David Benwell <<a href="mailto:dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk" target="_blank">dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk</a>>; William <<a href="mailto:william@william.si" target="_blank">william@william.si</a>>; Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank">suport@bunea.eu</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p></div></div> <o:p></o:p>Me also please<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div>Владимир Ѓуровски<o:p></o:p>Оддел за ИТ и ТК технологии<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>ЕВН Електродистрибуција ДООЕЛ<o:p></o:p>ул. „11 Октомври“ бр. 9, 1000 Скопје<o:p></o:p>T: +389 2 3205 300 – 44232<o:p></o:p>M: +389 72 934 232<o:p></o:p><a href="mailto:vladimir.gjurovski@evn.mk" target="_blank">vladimir.gjurovski@evn.mk</a><o:p></o:p><a href="http://www.evn.mk" target="_blank">www.evn.mk</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Користете ја енергијата разумно: помислете на животната средина пред да ја испечатите оваа електронска порака.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Vladimir Gjurovski<o:p></o:p>IT and TK technology Department<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>EVN Elektrodistribucija DOOEL<o:p></o:p>ul. „11 Oktomvri“ no. 9, 1000 Skopje<o:p></o:p>T: +389 2 3205 300 – 44232<o:p></o:p>M: +389 72 934 232<o:p></o:p><a href="mailto:vladimir.gjurovski@evn.mk" target="_blank">vladimir.gjurovski@evn.mk</a><o:p></o:p><a href="http://www.evn.mk" target="_blank">www.evn.mk</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Use energy wisely: Please consider the environment before you print this email.<o:p></o:p></div> <o:p></o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>] On Behalf Of John Jeffery Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 1:46 PM To: David Benwell; William; Bunea TELECOM Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p></div></div> <o:p></o:p><div id="m_5578169310785937683divtagdefaultwrapper">guys can you take me off this email chain?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>thanks v much<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></div><div id="m_5578169310785937683divRplyFwdMsg">From: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of David Benwell <<a href="mailto:dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk" target="_blank">dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk</a>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 12:44:26 PM To: William; Bunea TELECOM Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security <o:p></o:p><div> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div>William, Would you happen to be such holder of address apace?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>] On Behalf Of William Sent: 14 May 2018 11:47 To: Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank">suport@bunea.eu</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p></div></div> <o:p></o:p><div>These are legacy. They are not RIR business.<o:p></o:p><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is plainly wrong, they never owned them, this is pre-RIR space), they are private property.<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>Taking them is theft and nothing else, no matter how you phrase it.<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div><div>--<o:p></o:p></div><div>William Weber<o:p></o:p></div><div>Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div><a href="https://ip6.im/" target="_blank">https://ip6.im</a> - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have.<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><div>On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM <<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank">suport@bunea.eu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div>I agree,<o:p></o:p><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>There are tens of /8’s available, some of them even unannounced. For example there are lots of entities which if they would gave up (even partially) of their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete exaustion to 2020+. <o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></div><div>Petru<o:p></o:p><div><div>—<o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div> <o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> <img border=0 width=63 height=73 id="m_5578169310785937683x__x005f_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D3EB8E.9701FE50"><o:p></o:p><div> Petru Bunea / CEO <a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank">suport@bunea.eu</a> / <a href="tel:+40752481282" target="_blank">+40752481282</a><o:p></o:p></div>Bunea TELECOM / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT <a href="http://www.bunea.eu/" target="_blank">http://www.bunea.eu</a> / <a href="tel:+40745495495" target="_blank">+40745495495</a><o:p></o:p></div> <o:p></o:p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div>On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram <<a href="mailto:j.sundaram@123telcom.nl" target="_blank">j.sundaram@123telcom.nl</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div> <o:p></o:p><div><div>I think we should prioritize on on point two: what to do with unused blocks.<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div>Van: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> Namens Bruno Carvalho Verzonden: maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11 Aan: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Onderwerp: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div>This discussion is quite interesting. But i think it should be discussed between all RiRs. Not only for RIPE. When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, and do a simple scan of their assigned IP ranges... we found some /14 and several /16 unassigned/unused ranges. Personnally, i think we should focus on 2 main things: - Improve IPv6 implementation all over the territory (i know this is painfull for many LIRs because it implies additional work and purchase of new equipments. But let's face it. We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't support IPv6, it's very obsolete and not performant). - Check with the other RiRs what would be the best to do with those big unused ranges that are owned by companies that don't use them. Regards<o:p></o:p><div><div>---<o:p></o:p></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=4 cellpadding=0><tr><td width=156 style='width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><div><img border=0 width=148 height=43 id="m_5578169310785937683x__x005f_x0000_i1026" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/xrv.png" alt=XRV><o:p></o:p></div></td><td width=384 style='width:285.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a href="http://xrv.pt" target="_blank">xrv.pt</a>) | +351 300 404 316 P Please consider the environment before printing this email<o:p></o:p></td><td width=70 style='width:48.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/" target="_blank" title=XRV><img border=0 width=53 height=32 id="m_5578169310785937683x__x005f_x0000_i1027" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/www.png" alt="Visit our website"></a> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Facebook"><img border=0 width=32 height=32 id="m_5578169310785937683x__x005f_x0000_i1028" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/facebook.png" alt=Facebook></a><a href="https://twitter.com/xervers" target="_blank" title="Visit us on Twitter"><img border=0 width=32 height=32 id="m_5578169310785937683x__x005f_x0000_i1029" src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/twitter.png" alt=Twitter></a><o:p></o:p></td></tr></table></div> On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote:<o:p></o:p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div>Hello Not needed IP = The addressese company is ready to sell for a small profit 😊 ? This is probably good indication that its not used anymore. One option is to automatically block all and any IP transaction which does not involve transaction of the whole company/business. It is a question that can IP be a commodity. Now its a commodity that is getting more rare by the year. Maybe IP should be considered an jointly owned part of infrastructure which is deployed by need basis. (Socialistic way) Other option is to start to take money per IP. This would instantly mean that everyone would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it would cost 1 euro / year for a IP it would only be approx 1000 euros for the smallest allocation. Someone with 10 million IP addressese are likely to happily pay for it fi they are in use, but if they are not i would think they would be handed back. (Capitalistic way) One option is also to go with the current system because internet is working so its not horribly wrong at the moment either. One interesting this is tho that old LIR:s are likely to wanting to keep these things unchanged. New LIR:s are more likely to want changes as this is heavily favoring old LIR:s. And every year a proportionally larger part will be the ones with few IP:s and same vote than the one with alot of IP:s and also only 1 vote. Br. Hans -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- Lähettäjä: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34 Vastaanottaja: <a href="mailto:pdonner@znak.fi" target="_blank">pdonner@znak.fi</a>; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner pisze: <o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> I would like to amplify Dave's good proposal, by suggesting that unused addresses should be handed back to RIPE, so that they can be added to a pool of addresses reserved for LIRs who needs them for non-profit promotion of IP networks.<o:p></o:p></blockquote><div> Ok, but there is never ending story to resolve: how to define 'unused addresses'. Because not announced in BGP definitely != not used. -- Tomasz Śląski pl.skonet _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi</a> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt</a><o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote>_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></div> <o:p></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><div>Напомена: Оваа порака и сите прилози што ги содржи се доверливи, заштитени и наменети само за испраќачот. Секое објавување, препраќање или користење на податоците е строго забрането за лицата на кои не им е наменета. Доколку ја имате добиено пораката по грешка, Ве молиме контактирајте го испраќачот и избришете ја. Испраќачот не превзема одговорност за несоодветно или нецелосно пренесување на информациите содржани во оваа комуникација, ниту пак за какво било задоцнување или настанати оштетувања како резултат на прием. <o:p></o:p></div></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <o:p></o:p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><div>Confidentiality Note: This message and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the addressee. Any publication,transmission or other use of the information by a person or entity other than the intended addressee is prohibited. If you receive this in error please contact the sender and delete the material. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions as a result of the transmission. <o:p></o:p></div></td></tr></table> <o:p></o:p></div></div>_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ion.rebeja%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ion.rebeja%40gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>