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<p>But there is no point in arguing this. It has been discussed over
and over:</p>
<p>It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just because you
want it for free or at a very low cost. Current holders have a
good legal ground to refuse. Even if it was somehow reclaimed on
a large scale, it would last for a year or so? Remember, most
addresses would need to go to countries with large populations
where Internet is not built up like it is in Europe or North
America. Then what? Even if RIPE could reallocate addresses to
last a few more years it would mean even *more* work to do v6, not
less. <br>
</p>
<p>Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE will allocate
to you. I know this sucks, especially in poorer countries. But
that is probably the only way your business is going to happen, in
the short term. An alternative would be to bother the IETF to
release their reserved space but that is probably a waste of time
(never mind de-bogonizing it).<br>
</p>
<p>Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little because of cost. It
will eventually start hurting more, and in different ways. There
are ways to prepare for that, including making sure v6 is enabled
and functioning on everything you make. <br>
</p>
<p>/Peter<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev David
Benwell:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0faf4b7f667a45999eae9a98e6e3da9d@DC1.it-comms.local">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">No
its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why allow a
LLR to retain address space that they may never have used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> members-discuss
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>William<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14 May 2018 12:32<br>
<b>To:</b> Bunea TELECOM <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"><suport@bunea.eu></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer
(in)security<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">But this
does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a look at your
history (or here in Croatia) - you want to do the same,
steal from some parts of the society ('the rich') to
'benefit' the whole which ends horribly wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">This
discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian suggestion
to move RIPE to Moscow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William
Weber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Consulting,
Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka,
Croatia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a
href="https://ip6.im" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ip6.im</a>
- No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason?
Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just
get it anyway, can't hurt to have.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On
Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM <<a
href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" moz-do-not-send="true">suport@bunea.eu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Everybody
that says it’s theft, please consider the fact
that those ‘guys’ got their hands on /8 blocks
tens of years ago, and probably did not pay a dime
for them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">In
the light of events, one /8, respecting the 1024
IPv4 policy that RIPE has, would belong to over
16.000 LIR accounts!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">And
I must say, 16.000 companies would create a lot
of business compared to one company that holds a
/8 :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">—<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<img id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part3.1C2F9508.38E46328@fiberdirekt.se"
class="" height="73" width="63" border="0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<b>Petru Bunea</b> / CEO <br>
<a href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">suport@bunea.eu</span></a> / <a
href="tel:+40752481282" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">+40752481282</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121">Bunea
TELECOM</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> /
DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT<br>
<a href="http://www.bunea.eu/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">http://www.bunea.eu</span></a> / <a
href="tel:+40745495495" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">+40745495495</a><br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On
14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov <<a
href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alxl@telenet.lv</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bruno
has it’s point.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Legacy
parts of the space should be
reclaimed, but only ICANN has the
power to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
don’t like to call it a thief, I’d
rather say as all IP space is
rented (owning a number isn’t
bright), all that rented space,
wherever it is legacy or current
should be re-audited to justify
the reason of use.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
--<br>
Alex Lobachov<br>
Telenet, sia<br>
Network Systems Engineer<br>
LinkedIn: <a
href="https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll</a><br>
E-mail: <a
href="mailto:alxl@telenet.lv"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">alxl@telenet.lv</a><br>
Skype: alxl__<br>
Direct office: +371 67886224<br>
Office: +371 67711111<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a
href="mailto:bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt"
target="_blank"
title="bruno.carvalho@xrv.pt"
moz-do-not-send="true">
Bruno Carvalho</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a
href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
target="_blank"
title="members-discuss@ripe.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">
members-discuss@ripe.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Re:
[members-discuss] VL: IP
transfer (in)security<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">William,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Legacy
or not, at one point a
regulation was introduced. And
everyone should be regulated
(pre-RIR or not).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Is
the same has if you own a car
from back the traffic laws (1800
years?). If you drive it now,
you have to comply with all the
laws that regulate the sector.<br>
Why the legacy address space
owners shouldn't have to comply
with the actual regulations?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If
we look deep on the spaces
between 0.0.0.0 and
255.255.255.255 (that are not
local or bogons), i bet that
most than 50% are legacy and not
used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt"
width="153">
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/xrv.png"
alt="XRV"
moz-do-not-send="true"
height="43" width="148"
border="0"><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:285.0pt;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt"
width="382">
<p class="MsoNormal">Bruno
Carvalho (CEO <a
href="http://xrv.pt"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
xrv.pt</a>) | +351 300
404 316<br>
<span
style="font-family:Webdings;color:#009900">P</span> <span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#009900">Please
consider the environment
before printing this
email</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:48.0pt;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt"
width="67">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center"
align="center"><a
href="https://www.xrv.pt/"
target="_blank"
title="XRV"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="text-decoration:none"><img id="_x0000_i1027"
src="https://www.xrv.pt/templates/xrv/html/img/www.png"
alt="Visit our
website"
moz-do-not-send="true"
height="32"
width="53"
border="0"></span></a><br>
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href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/"
target="_blank"
title="Visit us on
Facebook"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
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</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On
2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">These
are legacy. They are not RIR
business.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">No
RIR can reclaim them (and
reclaim is plainly wrong,
they never owned them, this
is pre-RIR space), they are
private property.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Taking
them is theft and nothing
else, no matter how you
phrase it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">William
Weber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Consulting,
Security & Management
- Tel-Aviv, Israel /
Rijeka, Croatia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a
href="https://ip6.im/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://ip6.im</a>
- No RIPE LIR? Still read
this email for some
reason? Grab a /40 *free*
IPv6 space for BGP usage.
Or just get it anyway,
can't hurt to have.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On
Mon, May 14, 2018 at
12:27, Bunea TELECOM <<a
href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">suport@bunea.eu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm
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5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I agree, <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">There are tens of /8's
available, some of
them even
unannounced. For
example there are
lots of entities
which if they would
gave up (even
partially) of their
unused blocks, it
would push the IPv4
complete exaustion
to 2020+. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Petru<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">—<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<email-signature.jpg></span><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Petru
Bunea</span></strong> / CEO <br>
<a
href="mailto:suport@bunea.eu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">suport@bunea.eu</span></a>
/
<a
href="tel:+40752481282"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+40752481282</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121">Bunea
TELECOM</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> /
DATACENTER / APP
DEVELOPMENT<br>
<a
href="http://www.bunea.eu/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#477CCC;text-decoration:none">http://www.bunea.eu</span></a>
/
<a
href="tel:+40745495495"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">+40745495495</a><br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#1010FF
1.5pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On 14 May 2018, at
11:20,
Janarthanan
Sundaram <<a
href="mailto:j.sundaram@123telcom.nl" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">j.sundaram@123telcom.nl</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
think we
should
prioritize on
on point two:
what to do
with unused
blocks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0cm 0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Van:</span></strong><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> members-discuss
<<a
href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Namens </span></strong>Bruno
Carvalho<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Verzonden:</span></strong> maandag
14 mei 2018
10:11<br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Aan:</span></strong> <a
href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
<strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Onderwerp:</span></strong> Re:
[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This
discussion is
quite
interesting.
But i think it
should be
discussed
between all
RiRs. Not only
for RIPE.<br>
When we look
at big
companies,
like
Microsoft, and
do a simple
scan of their
assigned IP
ranges... we
found some /14
and several
/16
unassigned/unused
ranges.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Personnally,
i think we
should focus
on 2 main
things:</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">-
Improve IPv6
implementation
all over the
territory (i
know this is
painfull for
many LIRs
because it
implies
additional
work and
purchase of
new
equipments.
But let's face
it. We are in
2018. If an
equipment
doesn't
support IPv6,
it's very
obsolete and
not
performant).</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">-
Check with the
other RiRs
what would be
the best to do
with those big
unused ranges
that are owned
by companies
that don't use
them.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Regards</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">---</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<table
class="MsoNormalTable"
cellspacing="4" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="width:111.0pt;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt
.75pt"
width="147">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><blocked.gif><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</td>
<td
style="width:285.0pt;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt
.75pt"
width="347">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Bruno Carvalho (CEO <a
href="http://xrv.pt/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
xrv.pt</a>) |
+351 300 404
316<br>
<span
style="font-family:Webdings;color:#009900">P</span> <span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#009900">Please
consider the
environment
before
printing this
email</span><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:48.0pt;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt
.75pt"
width="190">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><a href="https://www.xrv.pt/"
target="_blank"
title="XRV"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple;text-decoration:none"><blocked.gif></span></a><br>
<a
href="https://www.facebook.com/xervers/"
target="_blank" title="Visit us on Facebook" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple;text-decoration:none"><blocked.gif></span></a><a
href="https://twitter.com/xervers" target="_blank" title="Visit us on
Twitter"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple;text-decoration:none"><blocked.gif></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On
2018-05-14
09:51, Hans
Govenius
wrote:</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#1010FF
1.5pt;padding:0cm
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5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Hello<br>
<br>
Not needed IP
= The
addressese
company is
ready to sell
for a small
profit </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI
Symbol",sans-serif">😊</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> ? This is
probably good
indication
that its not
used anymore.
One option is
to
automatically
block all and
any IP
transaction
which does not
involve
transaction of
the whole
company/business.
It is a
question that
can IP be a
commodity. Now
its a
commodity that
is getting
more rare by
the year.
Maybe IP
should be
considered an
jointly owned
part of
infrastructure
which is
deployed by
need basis.
(Socialistic
way)<br>
<br>
Other option
is to start to
take money per
IP. This would
instantly mean
that everyone
would look up
to own ip
spaces. Let
say it would
cost 1 euro /
year for a IP
it would only
be approx 1000
euros for the
smallest
allocation.
Someone with
10 million IP
addressese are
likely to
happily pay
for it fi they
are in use,
but if they
are not i
would think
they would be
handed back.
(Capitalistic
way)<br>
<br>
One option is
also to go
with the
current system
because
internet is
working so its
not horribly
wrong at the
moment
either. <br>
<br>
One
interesting
this is tho
that old LIR:s
are likely to
wanting to
keep these
things
unchanged. New
LIR:s are more
likely to want
changes as
this is
heavily
favoring old
LIR:s. And
every year a
proportionally
larger part
will be the
ones with few
IP:s and same
vote than the
one with alot
of IP:s and
also only 1
vote. <br>
<br>
Br. Hans <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----<br>
Lähettäjä:
members-discuss
<<a
href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a>>
Puolesta REG
ID: pl.skonet<br>
Lähetetty:
maanantai 14.
toukokuuta
2018 10.34<br>
Vastaanottaja: <a href="mailto:pdonner@znak.fi" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">pdonner@znak.fi</span></a>; <a
href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br>
Aihe: Re:
[members-discuss]
VL: IP
transfer
(in)security<br>
<br>
W dniu
14.05.2018 o
09:25, Philip
Donner pisze: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""><br>
I would like
to amplify
Dave's good
proposal, by
suggesting
that unused
addresses
should be
handed back to
RIPE, so that
they can be
added to a
pool of
addresses
reserved for
LIRs who needs
them for
non-profit
promotion of
IP networks.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
Ok, but there
is never
ending story
to resolve:
how to define
'unused
addresses'.
Because not
announced in
BGP definitely
!= not used.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Tomasz Śląski<br>
pl.skonet<br>
<br>
<br>
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