<div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;">@Dmitry:</div><div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;">RIPE NCC does not earn quick money, it is a non-profit organisation and not a self-service shop.</div><div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;">@Lutz Donnerhacke:<br>I'm not sure what you mean, but it is allowed for a single company to create multiple LIR accounts and so get multiple IPv4 /22 at the end of the day. That is absolutely conform to RIPE policy.</div><div style="font-family: Arial; text-align: left; font-size: 14px; color: #000000;"><br><br><hr style="border: 0; border-bottom: 1px solid #DADADA;"><b>From:</b> Dmitry Vorozhtsov <<a href="/email/new/1/dvorozhtsov%40gmail.com">dvorozhtsov@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 4. Dec 2018 – 12:09 CET +0100<br><b>To:</b> <a href="/email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] LIR???s billing issues with RIPE NCC, need support<br><br></div><div>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; color: #173860;">You are wrong. All my addresses are assigned and working. You may ask -
why do I open LIRs again and again?
Because I need more addresses to offer to my customers. Purchasing
addresses from open market is risky. Thats why I open new LIRs.
RIPE earns quick money in this case, not me.
Regards, Dmitry.
04.12.2018 19:41, Paolo Prandini пишет:
> I was worried so much about this discussion starting again!
> I suppose a lot of people is interested in it, as far as I can
> understand is a
> matter of quick money by buying and reselling the last IPv4 blocks,
> and RIPE is
> NOT making this easy enough for some people. Then there are legitimate
> claims, but the rules were so easy to understand, 1k IPs for new LIRs,
> that there is always someone trying to bend them to make some more money.
> Anyway it is the way it goes, the world moves where it finds the money,
> I suppose it is a corollary of finding the minimum of potential energy.
> But I am not interested in this discussion, it goes on and on and on
> since more than a year, I am unsubscribing to the list. Thanks anybody
> who contributed.
> Paolo
>
> Il 04/12/2018 11:25, ripe-member-discuss+lr@c2play.de ha scritto:
>> > Sebastian Wiesinger sebastian.wiesinger at noris.net [Tue Dec 4
>> 08:53:56 CET 2018]
>> > The RIPE NCC fees are anually. As a convenience *to you* you can also
>> > pay them quarterly (we don't). This has been discussed multiple times.
>>
>> > Regards
>>
>> > Sebastian
>>
>> That is, in the light of the matter of this discussion, not quite
>> correct. Yes, the fees are annual - but they are charged on a pro
>> rata basis, so for example, LIRs don't pay a full annual fee of
>> €1,400 when they become LIR in the last quarter of 2018. They only
>> pay for the last quarter of 2018.
>>
>> What the starter of the discussion criticizes is that LIRs not only
>> have to pay member fees retroactively, they also have to pay it when
>> those LIRs are not involved in the transfer at all.
>>
>> To be honest, I think that RIPE NCC is a very fair RIR, if not the
>> fairest. But I also admit that this rule is quite confusing: To
>> prevent impatient people from creating a LIR in the last quarter of a
>> year, then transfering the resource(s) and closing the LIR to make
>> fast money, we already have a rule which states that scarce resources
>> cannot be transfered within the first 24 months after the resource
>> was allocated.
>>
>> There may be also other reasons for companies to create multiple LIRs
>> than making fast money. Many people do legitime business. Also in the
>> earlier days of RIPE NCC some companies had multiple LIRs.
>>
>> With that said, I don't think the way how fees are charged for such
>> transfers is consistent, it is quite confusing. On the other hand
>> RIPE NCC has a legitime interest to prevent people from making fast
>> money; but here we already have an effective rule: The 24 months
>> restriction.
>>
>> So the question is: What is the reason for this rule if you think we
>> need it to be kept?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*Dave Benwell <dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk
>> </email/new/1/dave%40it-communicationsltd.co.uk>>
>> *Sent:*Tuesday, 4. Dec 2018 – 10:39 CET +0100
>> *To:*Sebastian Wiesinger <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net
>> </email/new/1/sebastian.wiesinger%40noris.net>>
>> members-discuss@ripe.net </email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net>
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [members-discuss] LIR’s billing issues with RIPE NCC,
>> need support
>>
>> Additional accounts are normally setup to get more IP Space
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On
>> Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger
>> Sent: 04 December 2018 07:54
>> To: members-discuss@ripe.net
>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] LIR’s billing issues with RIPE NCC,
>> need support
>>
>> * Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru> [2018-12-04 08:09]:
>> > I suggest RIPE NCC do correct accounting for each LIR for the time
>> > this LIR instance exists. If LIR has annual billing - then RIPE NCC
>> > should use it. If LIR selected quarterly billing - RIPE NCC show
>> use. > But RIPE NCC should not overcharge LIRs for the time they
>> didn't give > any services for LIR instance.
>>
>> The RIPE NCC fees are anually. As a convenience *to you* you can also
>> pay them quarterly (we don't). This has been discussed multiple times.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
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>
>
>
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