<div>Hi.</div><div><br /></div>Nobody wants to hack the policy/system. The M&A procedure in Russia lasts for 4 months and the new restriction interferes to sell the business for sturtup if they cannot continue their business.<div><br /></div><div><br />13:16, 19 December 2018., "Angeli László" <langeli@matracomp.hu>:<br /><blockquote> <div lang="HU" link="blue" vlink="purple"> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span>„</span>The M&A procedure is the long and <span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;"> difficult process”</span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;"> </span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;">No, you are wrong. It is simple, fast and cheap procedure, especially in the EU. It costs about 500 EUR at all.</span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;"> </span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;">Why are you guys always want to hack the transfer policy? If you want more IPV4 resources, buy it on the market, so you do not have to trick and boring everyone with your useless email storm!</span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;"> </span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;">Regards:</span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;"> </span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;">László Angeli</span><span></span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><span> </span></p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><b>From:</b> members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>IPLab<br /> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 18, 2018 4:09 PM<br /> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br /> <b>Subject:</b> [members-discuss] M&A procedure</p> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">Hi all!</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">On the 29th of October we received the next email:</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">----------------------------------------------</p> </div> <div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">Dear RIPE NCC members,</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">We would like to inform you of changes relating to transfers due to a</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">change in business structure (e.g., mergers and acquisitions) as</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">specified in the new section 3.6 of ripe-709, "Transfer of Internet</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">Number Resources and Change of a Member’s Official Legal Name”.</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">Following a resolution at the Executive Board meeting on 7 September,</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">when an member transfers IPv4 or 16-bit ASNs that are subject to the</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">transfer restriction due to a change in business structure, the</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">transferring LIR account needs to remain open until the new 24-month</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">restriction on transfer of scarce resources has passed. If the receiving</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">party already holds an LIR account, the LIR account of the transferring</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">party will become an additional LIR account of the receiving party.</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">In effect, consolidation of LIR accounts belonging to the same member is</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">not possible until the 24-month restriction has passed. However, new</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">24-month restrictions will not be applied to these resources if they are</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">further transferred between LIR accounts held by the same member after</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">the initial restrictions have expired. This applies to all resources</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">transferred between LIR accounts of the same member in all situations.</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">This change is effective from 7 September 2018.</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">The section on transfers between LIR accounts belonging to the same</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">member is available at:</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer35">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer35</a></p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">The section relating to transfers due to a change in business structure</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">is available at:</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer36">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer36</a></p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">The minutes of the 118th Executive Board meeting are available at:</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><a href="https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2018/draft-minutes-118th-ripe-ncc-executive-board-meeting">https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2018/draft-minutes-118th-ripe-ncc-executive-board-meeting</a>.</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">----------------------------------------------</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">It means that the M&A (change in business structure) procedure cannot be complete, if the offering party (closed company) received the resources less than 24 months before.</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">But I don't really understand what for this document was implemented. The M&A procedure is the long and <span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background:white;"> difficult process. More over it doesn't help to circumvent the transfer restriction policies to sell received resources.</span></p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">If you go to this link</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"><a href="https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/transfer-statistics/within-ripe-ncc-service-region/ipv4-transfer-statistics">https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/transfer-statistics/within-ripe-ncc-service-region/ipv4-transfer-statistics</a></p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">you can see that there are 309 transfers of /22 because of <span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:#333333;background:#F9F9F9;"> MERGER_OR_ACQUISITION</span> and 3289 /22 transfers because of POLICY. (you can input merger /22 in the SEARCH field and see it by yourself). It is less than 10% from the overall transfer of /22 blocks</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">If you look at 185./22 transfers, you can see that the number of transfers because of <span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:#333333;background:#F9F9F9;"> MERGER_OR_ACQUISITION</span> is 270. The total transfers of 185./22 because of POLICY is 1640. It is 14% transfers from the whole volume of transfers of 185./22.</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">To make my research more visual, I show the 2 tables: </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> Total Transfers of /22</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">M&A transfers Policy transfers % of M&A transfers </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> 309 3289 8.6%</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> Transfers of 185./22</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">M&A transfers Policy transfers % of M&A transfers </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> 262 <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:#333333;background:white;">1,638</span> 14.1%</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> Total Transfers</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">M&A transfers Policy transfers % of M&A transfers</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> 945 8,833 9.7%</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">So, as you can see the % of M&A transfers is a little, but the ripe-709 brings many new problems and additional payments to the NCC.</p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> </p> </div> <div> <p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">Summarizing I would like to know the members opinion regarding this question. My opinion is that the NCC should refuse ripe-709, especially paragraph 3.6.</p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p>_______________________________________________<br />members-discuss mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br /><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><br />Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ipservv%40yandex.ru">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ipservv%40yandex.ru</a><br /></p></blockquote><br /><br />-- <br />Отправлено из мобильного приложения Яндекс.Почты</div>