<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">As I understand it, RIPE are going through a cost cutting exercise to reduce overheads (the removal of quarterly billing for example due to “complexity” and reducing manpower requirements) …. Obviously this is laudable (if not annoying for those of us with tiny cashflows)… and perhaps they should look at some of the internal projects which have previously burned through cash for limited benefit (I’m thinking the RPKI project which cost over €500,000 and was then shelved in favour of another solution developed elsewhere?)<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Perhaps more attention should be focussed on the continuing reduction of RIPE operating costs … reducing the number of staff required, reducing the wage bill, reducing the size of the board and reducing costs there … again passing those savings on to the membership.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">RIPE are already returning funds to the LIRs because they have too much cash … Perhaps they should be looking at reducing costs and the cost of being an LIR by reducing the fees we’re paying, not coming up with charging scheme which will actually increase revenues … </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">RIPE repeatedly state that IP assignments are not billable resources, that they cannot (for tax reasons) charge for IP addresses … which is fine</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">They’re basing costs on the amount of paperwork (resource requests) a member makes … they should therefore (imho) be basing any fees on the number of requests a member makes each year .. the more prolific a user of the system, the more that member should pay</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As a small ISP we make very little use of RIPE and tbh €1400 seems a lot to pay for membership, but it seems we have no choice as without membership we lose our assignments? I think on the basis of requests we’ve made of the last few years, we’re probably paying on average about €2500 a request .. which seems crazy</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Personally, I would prefer to see a scheme which meant that those using the system were paying for it and those who rarely use the system aren’t penalised … I would certainly like to see the Small ISP membership fee reduce, probably to about €200 a year. Even if we have to pay a fee for any new resources, if and when we request them … even if this were €50 a request …. It would still mean our RIPE costs were more in line with our usage of the system that’s there</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t like the idea that we’re basically subsidising the Larger ISPs who are making hundreds or thousands of requests a year </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Just my 2c</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Jon Morby</div><div class="">FidoNet</div><div class="">AS8282</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 19 Apr 2019, at 11:43, Francesco Cristofori <<a href="mailto:Francesco.Cristofori@adcgroup.com" class="">Francesco.Cristofori@adcgroup.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi all,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">scheme B will be better for very small LIRs with just a v4 /22 and a v6 assignment, since (if I understand the new scheme the right way) it will grant a saving of 150€/year (1250€/year vs 1400€/year).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">It’s a small saving but it’s a saving anyway.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Br,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Francesco.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><table class="Tabellanormale" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="margin-left: 5.4pt; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td width="108" valign="top" style="width: 81.25pt; border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: windowtext; padding: 0cm 5.4pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><span id="cid:image001.png@01D4F6AD.B5E70BA0"><image001.png></span> </span><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td width="149" valign="top" style="width: 111.8pt; border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: windowtext; padding: 0cm 5.4pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Francesco Cristofori</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7pt; line-height: 9.799999237060547px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Solution Design & PM Manager</span><span style="font-size: 7pt; line-height: 9.799999237060547px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">T<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">+39 059 7470500</span><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">@</span></b><span style="font-size: 7pt; line-height: 9.799999237060547px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:francesco.cristofori@adcgroup.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">francesco.cristofori</span><span lang="FR" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">@adcgroup.com</span></a></span><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td width="123" valign="top" style="width: 92.15pt; border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: windowtext; padding: 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">AD Consulting S.p.A.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Via Natalia Ginzburg, 40</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">41123 Modena</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.399999618530273px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 11.199999809265137px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="http://www.adcgroupspa.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">www.adcgroupspa.com</span></a><b class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Stuart Willet<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>venerdì 19 aprile 2019 12:01<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sebastian Malek <<a href="mailto:malek@malek.li" class="">malek@malek.li</a>>; ivaylo <<a href="mailto:ivaylo@bglans.net" class="">ivaylo@bglans.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2020 - Board Reasoning<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">All option B would do is increase revenue.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Nobody is going to return a block for the sake of 50 Euros, given their current value with IPv4 demand so high.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">All this will do is sting the newest members who have had to buy blocks to build up IP space.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Stuart.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Sebastian Malek<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, 19 April 2019 10:56<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ivaylo <<a href="mailto:ivaylo@bglans.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ivaylo@bglans.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2020 - Board Reasoning<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">In my opinion we should keep the current scheme.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Splitting allocations in the RIPE DB just for this reason makes *no* sense.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">If you want to charge per IP or per allocation, it would be better to take the IP count from the LIR portal and calculate the fee based on that.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Sebastian<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:53 AM ivaylo <<a href="mailto:ivaylo@bglans.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ivaylo@bglans.net</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><br class="">From network point of view nothing will change, Cynthia.<br class=""><br class="">You can still aggregate your announces. See this document point 7.2<br class=""><a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-399" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-399</a><br class=""><br class="">Ivaylo Josifov<br class="">Varteh LTD<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">On Fri, 19 Apr 2019, Cynthia Revstr?m wrote:<br class=""><br class="">> From a networking point of view, this would be extremely idiotic, you would<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> fill up routers' memory with routes and take down the internet if you did<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> this.<br class="">><br class="">> Splitting blocks is just idiotic.<br class="">><br class="">> - Cynthia<br class="">><br class="">> On 2019-04-19 11:03, ivaylo wrote:<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> Hello,<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> Scheme B will work good and fair to all only with one condition - If ripe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> split IPV4 ALLOCATED PA blocks dedicated to LIRs in maximum /22 (better<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> /24) blocks.<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> Example:<br class="">>> Now LIR-1 have ALLOCATED-PA<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://10.0.0.0/20" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">10.0.0.0/20</a><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> After split LIR-1 will have ALLOCATED-PA<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://10.0.0.0/22" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">10.0.0.0/22</a><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://10.0.4.0/22" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">10.0.4.0/22</a><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://10.0.8.0/22" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">10.0.8.0/22</a><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://10.0.12.0/22" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">10.0.12.0/22</a><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> For IPV6 same splir but based on /32 allocated-pa blocks<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> From technical point of view this automatic split can be done easy.<br class="">>> Then Scheme B will be fair for all, and will cover what many of us talking<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> for charging scheme based on IP resources. Also will cover that RIPE NCC do<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> not "sell" IPV4<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> Ivaylo Josifov<br class="">>> Varteh LTD<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2019, Christian Kaufmann wrote:<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> Dear members,<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> First of all, I'd like to thank you for the feedback we received from<br class="">>>> everyone so far, and special thanks to the people who gave some more<br class="">>>> context and explanation. Trying to arrive at a charging scheme that will<br class="">>>> please everyone is not an easy task.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> The reason the board proposes two charging schemes is because some<br class="">>>> members requested a real alternative and difference to the existing "one<br class="">>>> LIR account-one fee" version we have right now and that is more volume<br class="">>>> based.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> This came up previously in the charging scheme task force discussions<br class="">>>> but also from individual members via emails or through personal contact.<br class="">>>> Nigel and I promised at the last two GMs that we would present a new one<br class="">>>> before the May GM this year.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> So what was the board's thinking in proposing these two models?<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> Firstly, many people like the existing model and the board believes that<br class="">>>> it covers the spirit of what some members want by maintaining the<br class="">>>> financial stability of the NCC while keeping fairness and equality in<br class="">>>> mind. The board also does not want a price per IP model because this<br class="">>>> would have tax implications (the RIPE NCC does not sell IP addresses and<br class="">>>> the charging scheme should reflect this) and we feel it is not in<br class="">>>> keeping with the idea of a membership association.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> We have also found in the past that having more than two options does<br class="">>>> not work well from a voting perspective. This would add considerable<br class="">>>> complexity to the voting in which resolutions must be approved by more<br class="">>>> than 50% of voters to be adopted.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> The second charging scheme option is one that the board believes offers<br class="">>>> a real alternative while staying away from the price per IP aspect.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> The board's thinking in making the Option B proposal is that every<br class="">>>> registry entry consumes resources such as customer support time,<br class="">>>> database memory, registration time, etc. regardless of the size of the<br class="">>>> allocation. A /24 and a /12 are not so different in this regard so we<br class="">>>> see this as fair in terms of the work required by the RIPE NCC to<br class="">>>> maintain the registry. The reason we suggest to charge IPv4 and IPv6 in<br class="">>>> the same way follows the same logic - there is no tax designed to move<br class="">>>> people to IPv6. We did not want to have a political, policy-driven<br class="">>>> charging scheme because the board believes this is the work of community<br class="">>>> rather than for the board or membership to decide on.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> I understand that the "volume-based" description could be seen as<br class="">>>> misleading and I apologise for the misunderstanding here. The proposed<br class="">>>> model is based on registrations and not per IP as we do not want to<br class="">>>> indicate that IP is a sellable product but rather the RIPE NCC should<br class="">>>> charge members for the registry services it provides.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> The new charging scheme was also not proposed so that the RIPE NCC could<br class="">>>> make more money - it takes the current budget and calculates backwards<br class="">>>> to achieve the amount required to run the RIPE NCC. It is just a<br class="">>>> different model to share the current cost among members.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> Despite concerns that were raised on this list, the board took the<br class="">>>> request of some members to propose a new model very seriously and we<br class="">>>> spent quite some time to discuss and model the current scenario by<br class="">>>> trying to be as fair as possible and sticking with the principles of a<br class="">>>> membership organisation.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> Again, we are very thankful for your input and the feedback on the two<br class="">>>> models. We will continue to monitor discussions and we will of course<br class="">>>> present on the Charging Scheme 2020 at the upcoming GM. We encourage you<br class="">>>> to register your vote so you can have the final say on the two proposals.<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> Best regards,<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> Christian Kaufmann<br class="">>>> RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>> _______________________________________________<br class="">>>> members-discuss mailing list<br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><br class="">>>> Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ivaylo%40bglans.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ivaylo%40bglans.net</a><br class="">>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> _______________________________________________<br class="">>> members-discuss mailing list<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><br class="">>> Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/me%40cynthia.re" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/me%40cynthia.re</a><br class="">><br class="">> _______________________________________________<br class="">> members-discuss mailing list<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><br class="">> Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ivaylo%40bglans.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ivaylo%40bglans.net</a><br class="">><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">members-discuss mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><br class="">Unsubscribe:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/malek%40malek.li" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/malek%40malek.li</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></blockquote></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">members-discuss mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" class="">members-discuss@ripe.net</a></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/jon%40fido.net" class="">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/jon%40fido.net</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>