<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Mike,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I'm curious why you feel that charge
more / spend more should be the only option for vote?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Why should we not vote that RIPE reduce
its expenses instead?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Cheers</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Daniel~<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/9/23 05:21, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mail@mys.co.uk">mail@mys.co.uk</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:4DDD3A0D-E2D0-48B7-85E3-13D123E1C613@mys.co.uk">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<span style="font-family: ArialMT;" class="">Hello</span>
<div class="" style="font-family: ArialMT;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: ArialMT;">Tiered membership cost
structures should be the only options put forward for a vote as
this is the only viable and sustainable way forward. </div>
<div class="" style="font-family: ArialMT;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: ArialMT;">The current structure
is rapidly pushing up costs for members with XS/S allocations
making it unsustainable and RIPE can not afford to continue with
the decreasing revenue this model achieves.</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: ArialMT;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: ArialMT;">Is is a no-brainer for
LIRs with multiple accounts to amalgamate their positions into
one LIR account and that is not sustainable under the current
pricing structure. It seems reasonable to me that LIR membership
costs should be calculated pro-rata on the number of resources
held by each LIR, albeit with a base membership cost of say €500
per LIR with a /22 or less. Each additional /22 should be costed
on the total amount of /22's within RIPE divided by the required
income budget set by RIPE for the following year. </div>
<div class="" style="font-family: ArialMT;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: ArialMT;">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div dir="auto" class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div dir="auto" class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;">
<div dir="auto" class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;">
<div class="">For the sake of LIRs with small or extra
small resources, and also for the sustainability of
RIPE itself, RIPE can not in my view, even risk the
option of continuing with the current “Option 1”
model.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><font class="">Best</font></div>
<div class=""><font class="">Mike</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Calibri-Bold"
color="#222993"><b class=""><br class="">
</b></font></div>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class="">
<div class="">On 8 Mar 2023, at 21:46, Lukasz Jarosz <<a
href="mailto:lukasz@jarosz.pl" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">lukasz@jarosz.pl</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi,<br class="">
I also think, that before so sever fee increases are
implemented, budget should be reconsidered. I want to point
out that according to<br class="">
"RIPE NCC Activity Plan and Budget 2023” ( <a
href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786/#4.%20Maintaining%20a%20Strong%20Organisation"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786/#4.%20Maintaining%20a%20Strong%20Organisation</a> )
<b class="">RIPE is spending as much money for these
extracurricular activities as for maintaining registry</b>.
<div class="">Especially with some of our members suffering
from war and other natural disasters, RIPE shouldn’t be
budgeting to increase investments, but only for sustaining
required services. <br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">Best regards,<br class="">
Lukasz Jarosz<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Wiadomość napisana
przez Kaj Niemi <<a href="mailto:kajtzu@basen.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">kajtzu@basen.net</a>>
w dniu 07.03.2023, o godz. 12:02:<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks, the email and the excel made for some quite
interesting reading. There are a few other reasonable
options which were not listed on the slide deck from
2021 nor in your email.<br class="">
<br class="">
An obvious option would be to reduce budgeted RIPE NCC
expenditure to the level of forecasted revenue. This
is what most normal companies, without assured
funding, must do.<br class="">
<br class="">
Another option would be to charge LIRs for the
services they use. With this I do not mean IP
addresses and ASNs that were mentioned in your model
but for everything. Someone who is using only basic
LIR services (IP/ASN assignments, reverse
name services) would not have to pay for "value-added
services" (VAS).<br class="">
<br class="">
With VAS I mean RIPE NCC's varied extracurricular
activities such as outreach, education programs and
software development that have expanded considerably
over the years and have undoubtedly been of some value
to some of its members. Still, many of the same
roles/functions are also conducted by membership
organizations, NOGs, and independent software
developers. Imposition of the costs of such programs
on members, who either don't benefit from or do not
use them, equates the charging model functioning
mostly as an ATM to finance the ambitions and
initiatives of the RIPE NCC leadership and a small
group of active advocates.<br class="">
<br class="">
Some of us would be happy with a Big Mac meal rather
than the expensive all you can eat seafood buffet 😉<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Kaj<br class="">
<br class="">
-----Original Message-----<br class="">
From: ncc-announce <<a
href="mailto:ncc-announce-bounces@ripe.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">ncc-announce-bounces@ripe.net</a>>
On Behalf Of Simon Jan Haytink<br class="">
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 11:35<br class="">
To: <a href="mailto:ncc-announce@ripe.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">ncc-announce@ripe.net</a><br
class="">
Subject: [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC
Charging Scheme 2024<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear RIPE NCC members,<br class="">
<br class="">
We would like to re-open the consultation we began
with the membership in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging
Scheme model, and we would like to carry out that
consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General
Meeting (GM) May 2023. <br class="">
<br class="">
In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we
also surveyed our members and held an open house to
get direct input on the charging scheme model that
members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC.
The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that
there were strong cases made for both the current
one-LIR, one-fee model and for a category-based model
that would charge based on the number of resources
held by a member. A strong case was also made to
charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the
RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for
transfers. <br class="">
<br class="">
The Executive Board decided to suspend the
consultation in light of the war in Ukraine, but we
are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter
together with the membership. <br class="">
<br class="">
One of the main reasons that we would like to advance
the discussion on the charging model is that we expect
many members with multiple LIR accounts who received
resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the
coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC
receives will be reduced by a significant amount and
we will need to ensure that our charging model allows
us to collect the revenue required to maintain our
operations. We believe that a category-based model
would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk.
Continuing with the existing model would mean that an
increase in fees for all members would be required.
Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme
model that will be sustainable for many years to
come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s members.<br
class="">
<br class="">
To help with discussion and to provide something
tangible for members to assess, we are putting forward
two draft models for members to review. These models
can be summarised as:<br class="">
<br class="">
Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the
current RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023 that also
charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and
changes in business structure such as Mergers &
Acquisitions.<br class="">
<br class="">
Model 2: A category-based model that charges per
member (not per LIR account) and is based on resources
registered and that also charges for independent
resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business
structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.<br
class="">
<br class="">
In order to allow members to form an opinion based on
their own situation, we are providing an Excel sheet
that will allow you to calculate the fees you would
pay under each of the draft models. It is important to
be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for
each item are indicative and would be reviewed in
light of the discussion with members. We plan to
review these figures following consultation with the
members, and giving input on those figures would
greatly help to arrive at a good model. <br class="">
<br class="">
You can download the Excel sheet from:<br class="">
<a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-</a>community-consultations%2Fmember-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p27R1eIR06WMjapHci7lCcjUxNBvlnExmGvJr6XesOA%3D&reserved=0<br
class="">
<br class="">
We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the
Charging Scheme in March to further discuss the
charging scheme models. The Executive Board will then
take the input and decide on one or more charging
schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be
held on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will
determine the charging scheme model to be used in
the coming years.<br class="">
<br class="">
I ask that you provide your input on this important
consultation on the Membership Discussion mailing list
(<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>)
by 26 April. Input provided up to this date will be
considered by the Board when formulating the
charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input
after this date is of course also welcome although it
might not be reflected in the schemes put forward to
the membership at the GM.<br class="">
<br class="">
The consultation will also be recorded and available
from:<br class="">
<a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
I look forward to your input.<br class="">
<br class="">
Kind regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
Simon Jan Haytink<br class="">
Finance Director<br class="">
RIPE NCC<br class="">
<br class="">
Summary<br class="">
<br class="">
7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE
NCC Charging Scheme model<br class="">
21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with
membership<br class="">
24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input
received so far<br class="">
12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging
Schemes 2024<br class="">
26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging
Schemes to be voted on by members<br class="">
24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023<br class="">
<br class="">
References<br class="">
<br class="">
Open House and Survey Results<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fopen-house%2Fripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PXkQQ03kVkFM6T8w0wVHyjqKJV6ckSsqg6cNpg24e5w%3D&reserved=0">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fopen-house%2Fripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PXkQQ03kVkFM6T8w0wVHyjqKJV6ckSsqg6cNpg24e5w%3D&reserved=0</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
Presentation at General Meeting<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fgm%2Fmeetings%2Fmay-2021%2Fdocumentation-and-archive%2Fripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O9UYcJe53%2FlO08Qr4X%2FtcR2w0w6YopCcz448FcWGhdg%3D&reserved=0">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fgm%2Fmeetings%2Fmay-2021%2Fdocumentation-and-archive%2Fripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O9UYcJe53%2FlO08Qr4X%2FtcR2w0w6YopCcz448FcWGhdg%3D&reserved=0</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
members-discuss mailing list<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><br class="">
Unsubscribe:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/lukasz%40jarosz.pl">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/lukasz%40jarosz.pl</a><br
class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
members-discuss mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><br
class="">
Unsubscribe:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mail%40mys.co.uk">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mail%40mys.co.uk</a><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
members-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a>
Unsubscribe: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</body>
</html>