<html><head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"/> </head> <body> The rationale is something called giving an equal opportunity to everyone. The same way you obtained IP addresses from IP addresses from RIPE - other people and organizations should be able to do the same. 1. There are many more LIRs with smaller allocations that would benefit from the new proposed pricing model two. 2. RIPE NCC would benefit from pricing model two because it encourages IP address recycling. More LIRs in the future. 3. Our members benefit by increasing the availability of IPv4. This is a limited resource of the internet. Nobody should be trying to control it as a commodity. Like land, it should be taxed to prevent hoarding and create a healthy economy based on fair usage and work to pay those taxes. There are orgs in RIPE that have tens of thousands of IPs they don't use and they don't pay for them. They don't have any interest in selling them either. I believe that just because an org became a member many years ago and got bucket loads of IPs for very little justification, doesn't mean they should be entitled to them in the future for no extra cost. As I've already stated many times, this is not going to be a popular opinion to any member with a large allocation of IP addresses, but to be frank, I don't care if I offend them - this is my opinion and a small org's voice can be heard on RIPE as much as a large org. Regards, Josh Jameson Technical Director ServeByte Ltd <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/03/2023 16:05, Kaj Niemi wrote: </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:AM7P194MB075615F186269872B72A305FCBB59@AM7P194MB0756.EURP194.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"/> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"/> <style>@font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:-webkit-standard;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;}span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;}div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}</style> <div class="WordSection1"> Can you explain the rationale on returning addresses to RIPE NCC rather than selling them onward? There is a market for this thing which exists in limited amounts, you know. 😊<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Kaj<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> From: members-discuss <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net></a> On Behalf Of Josh Jameson Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 16:08 To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] New pricing proposal - it goes out of control<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Not to mention that ARIN ran out of IP addresses in 2015. They failed to preserve their resources long before any other region. It's not in the interest of RIPE NCC to follow that kind of logic.<o:p></o:p> I see other members suggesting to not over complicate things and just charge per /24. That could result in the pool being replenished with recycled IP blocks, as I imagine many organizations won't want to continue to pay for IPs they will never use. Right now there's no incentive to recycle unused IP blocks and that has to change.<o:p></o:p> Regards, Josh Jameson Technical Director ServeByte Ltd<o:p></o:p> <div> On 09/03/2023 10:00, Michele Neylon - Blacknight via members-discuss wrote:<o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> If ARIN was “perfect” making references to their model might hold water, but they are far from that.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <div> --<o:p></o:p> Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p> Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p> Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p> <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacknight.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1508b49fea1c43d7724108db20b6e078%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638139742037649653%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YnOGeWzeakVuyehUXxXe4Ph9TobkY0xC%2BXrTuf5IIiE%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p> <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblacknight.blog%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1508b49fea1c43d7724108db20b6e078%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638139742037649653%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=apoQBpfB8pBp44FcplTJqKZZKmG9OImJLtwhev6cDNU%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">https://blacknight.blog/</a><o:p></o:p> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p> Personal blog: <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichele.blog%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1508b49fea1c43d7724108db20b6e078%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638139742037649653%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1toEZxwdGCW4mQ6WX1ZCb%2BFeVWGrTo%2BO7Y16iOfq3YY%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">https://michele.blog/</a><o:p></o:p> Some thoughts: <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fceo.hosting%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1508b49fea1c43d7724108db20b6e078%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638139742037649653%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6LQSn%2B7USwGr94tYQ%2FgPG1n35%2FpS6KOFLx7wrlE0Gis%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ceo.hosting/</a><o:p></o:p> -------------------------------<o:p></o:p> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> From: members-discuss <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net></a> on behalf of Servperso via members-discuss <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><members-discuss@ripe.net></a> Date: Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 12:10 To: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><members-discuss@ripe.net></a> Subject: [members-discuss] New pricing proposal - it goes out of control<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Hello Everyone, I'm analyzing the new charging scheme proposed by RIPE NCC. Adopt the new scheme like that KILL every small hosting provider include us. I don't think that's a good idea for RIPE NCC to kill a lot of small provider. It kill net neutrality, and i think a lot of small isp call IANA to sanction the RIPE board for that. In practice, you ask 8000€ / year because a provider has one ASN ? It's mostly mandatory for all members to own at least one. Why not doing some in between prupose: More "reasonable" base membership. Small ISP doesn't have to pay mush. Let imagine a resource quantity category. IPv6 only => category 1 < 10 000 IPv4 => category 2 50 000 IPv4 => .... ... - Extra fee for every PI of 50€ Like that, big isp who can pay for the RIPE work because they extract high value from them. Also people who sponsor a lot of PI (who generate a lot of work for RIPE resource analyst) pay for the employment time. As a reminder, ARIN use this model. Best regards, Sarah _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1508b49fea1c43d7724108db20b6e078%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638139742037649653%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VMXOOWxh1e%2B7qYQj5y9o5rxhw5s4B9aTInPvAvBeWgc%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a> Unsubscribe: <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fmichele%2540blacknight.com&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1508b49fea1c43d7724108db20b6e078%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638139742037649653%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1GXH0GCgQyqcFGNGlk%2F9YXqp2V8hq5qCXXiXBDA8%2FsU%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true"> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight.com</a><o:p></o:p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </body></html>