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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Howdy,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I agree Re-evaluating RIPE's position,
goals and it's budget should absolutely be the case.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">RIPE is a registry first, that should
be the core focus of RIPE.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/8/23 15:46, Lukasz Jarosz wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:F745603E-731D-4C36-8D38-8687FAE3E4A2@jarosz.pl">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Hi,<br class="">
I also think, that before so sever fee increases are implemented,
budget should be reconsidered. I want to point out that according
to<br class="">
"RIPE NCC Activity Plan and Budget 2023” ( <a
href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786/#4.
Maintaining a Strong Organisation" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786/#4.%20Maintaining%20a%20Strong%20Organisation</a> )
<b class="">RIPE is spending as much money for these
extracurricular activities as for maintaining registry</b>.
<div class="">Especially with some of our members suffering from
war and other natural disasters, RIPE shouldn’t be budgeting to
increase investments, but only for sustaining required
services. <br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">Best regards,<br class="">
Lukasz Jarosz<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Wiadomość napisana przez Kaj
Niemi <<a href="mailto:kajtzu@basen.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">kajtzu@basen.net</a>>
w dniu 07.03.2023, o godz. 12:02:<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks, the email and the excel made for some quite
interesting reading. There are a few other reasonable
options which were not listed on the slide deck from 2021
nor in your email.<br class="">
<br class="">
An obvious option would be to reduce budgeted RIPE NCC
expenditure to the level of forecasted revenue. This is what
most normal companies, without assured funding, must do.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Another option would be to charge LIRs for the services they
use. With this I do not mean IP addresses and ASNs that
were mentioned in your model but for everything. Someone who
is using only basic LIR services (IP/ASN assignments,
reverse name services) would not have to pay for
"value-added services" (VAS).<br class="">
<br class="">
With VAS I mean RIPE NCC's varied extracurricular activities
such as outreach, education programs and software
development that have expanded considerably over the years
and have undoubtedly been of some value to some of its
members. Still, many of the same roles/functions are also
conducted by membership organizations, NOGs, and independent
software developers. Imposition of the costs of such
programs on members, who either don't benefit from or do not
use them, equates the charging model functioning mostly as
an ATM to finance the ambitions and initiatives of the RIPE
NCC leadership and a small group of active advocates.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Some of us would be happy with a Big Mac meal rather than
the expensive all you can eat seafood buffet 😉<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Kaj<br class="">
<br class="">
-----Original Message-----<br class="">
From: ncc-announce <<a
href="mailto:ncc-announce-bounces@ripe.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">ncc-announce-bounces@ripe.net</a>>
On Behalf Of Simon Jan Haytink<br class="">
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 11:35<br class="">
To: <a href="mailto:ncc-announce@ripe.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">ncc-announce@ripe.net</a><br
class="">
Subject: [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC
Charging Scheme 2024<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear RIPE NCC members,<br class="">
<br class="">
We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the
membership in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme
model, and we would like to carry out that consultation well
in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2023. <br
class="">
<br class="">
In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also
surveyed our members and held an open house to get direct
input on the charging scheme model that members would like
to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that
stage of the consultation was that there were strong cases
made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a
category-based model that would charge based on the number
of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made
to charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the
RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for
transfers. <br class="">
<br class="">
The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in
light of the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a
way forward on this matter together with the membership. <br
class="">
<br class="">
One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the
discussion on the charging model is that we expect many
members with multiple LIR accounts who received resources in
2021 to merge these accounts in the coming year. This means
that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a
significant amount and we will need to ensure that our
charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to
maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based
model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk.
Continuing with the existing model would mean that an
increase in fees for all members would be required. Our
ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme model that
will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting the
needs of the RIPE NCC’s members.<br class="">
<br class="">
To help with discussion and to provide something tangible
for members to assess, we are putting forward two draft
models for members to review. These models can be summarised
as:<br class="">
<br class="">
Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current
RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023 that also charges
for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in
business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not
per LIR account) and is based on resources registered and
that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers
and changes in business structure such as Mergers &
Acquisitions.<br class="">
<br class="">
In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their
own situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will
allow you to calculate the fees you would pay under each of
the draft models. It is important to be aware that at this
stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative and
would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members.
We plan to review these figures following consultation with
the members, and giving input on those figures would greatly
help to arrive at a good model. <br class="">
<br class="">
You can download the Excel sheet from:<br class="">
<a
href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-</a>community-consultations%2Fmember-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p27R1eIR06WMjapHci7lCcjUxNBvlnExmGvJr6XesOA%3D&reserved=0<br
class="">
<br class="">
We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the
Charging Scheme in March to further discuss the charging
scheme models. The Executive Board will then take the input
and decide on one or more charging schemes for the
membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023.
The outcome of that vote will determine the charging scheme
model to be used in the coming years.<br class="">
<br class="">
I ask that you provide your input on this important
consultation on the Membership Discussion mailing list
(<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>) by 26 April. Input provided up to
this date will be considered by the Board when formulating
the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input after
this date is of course also welcome although it might not be
reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at
the GM.<br class="">
<br class="">
The consultation will also be recorded and available from:<br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
I look forward to your input.<br class="">
<br class="">
Kind regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
Simon Jan Haytink<br class="">
Finance Director<br class="">
RIPE NCC<br class="">
<br class="">
Summary<br class="">
<br class="">
7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC
Charging Scheme model<br class="">
21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with
membership<br class="">
24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received
so far<br class="">
12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes
2024<br class="">
26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to
be voted on by members<br class="">
24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023<br class="">
<br class="">
References<br class="">
<br class="">
Open House and Survey Results<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fopen-house%2Fripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PXkQQ03kVkFM6T8w0wVHyjqKJV6ckSsqg6cNpg24e5w%3D&reserved=0">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fopen-house%2Fripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PXkQQ03kVkFM6T8w0wVHyjqKJV6ckSsqg6cNpg24e5w%3D&reserved=0</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
Presentation at General Meeting<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fgm%2Fmeetings%2Fmay-2021%2Fdocumentation-and-archive%2Fripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O9UYcJe53%2FlO08Qr4X%2FtcR2w0w6YopCcz448FcWGhdg%3D&reserved=0">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fgm%2Fmeetings%2Fmay-2021%2Fdocumentation-and-archive%2Fripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O9UYcJe53%2FlO08Qr4X%2FtcR2w0w6YopCcz448FcWGhdg%3D&reserved=0</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
members-discuss mailing list<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss</a><br
class="">
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</blockquote>
<br class="">
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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