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<p>Well said. I agree with this.</p>
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<p>Regards,<br />Paul Lewis.</p>
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<p id="reply-intro">On 2023-03-09 11:21, mail@mys.co.uk wrote:</p>
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<div style="font-family: ArialMT;">Tiered membership cost structures should be the only options put forward for a vote as this is the only viable and sustainable way forward. </div>
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<div style="font-family: ArialMT;">The current structure is rapidly pushing up costs for members with XS/S allocations making it unsustainable and RIPE can not afford to continue with the decreasing revenue this model achieves.</div>
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<div style="font-family: ArialMT;">Is is a no-brainer for LIRs with multiple accounts to amalgamate their positions into one LIR account and that is not sustainable under the current pricing structure. It seems reasonable to me that LIR membership costs should be calculated pro-rata on the number of resources held by each LIR, albeit with a base membership cost of say €500 per LIR with a /22 or less. Each additional /22 should be costed on the total amount of /22's within RIPE divided by the required income budget set by RIPE for the following year. </div>
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<div>For the sake of LIRs with small or extra small resources, and also for the sustainability of RIPE itself, RIPE can not in my view, even risk the option of continuing with the current "Option 1" model.</div>
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<div><span>Best</span></div>
<div><span>Mike</span></div>
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<div>On 8 Mar 2023, at 21:46, Lukasz Jarosz <<a href="mailto:lukasz@jarosz.pl" rel="noreferrer">lukasz@jarosz.pl</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi,<br />I also think, that before so sever fee increases are implemented, budget should be reconsidered. I want to point out that according to<br />"RIPE NCC Activity Plan and Budget 2023" ( <a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786/#4.%20Maintaining%20a%20Strong%20Organisation" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786/#4.%20Maintaining%20a%20Strong%20Organisation</a> ) <strong>RIPE is spending as much money for these extracurricular activities as for maintaining registry</strong>.
<div>Especially with some of our members suffering from war and other natural disasters, RIPE shouldn't be budgeting to increase investments, but only for sustaining required services. <br />
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<div>Best regards,<br />Lukasz Jarosz</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">Wiadomość napisana przez Kaj Niemi <<a href="mailto:kajtzu@basen.net" rel="noreferrer">kajtzu@basen.net</a>> w dniu 07.03.2023, o godz. 12:02:<br /><br />Hi,<br /><br /><br />Thanks, the email and the excel made for some quite interesting reading. There are a few other reasonable options which were not listed on the slide deck from 2021 nor in your email.<br /><br />An obvious option would be to reduce budgeted RIPE NCC expenditure to the level of forecasted revenue. This is what most normal companies, without assured funding, must do.<br /><br />Another option would be to charge LIRs for the services they use. With this I do not mean IP addresses and ASNs that were mentioned in your model but for everything. Someone who is using only basic LIR services (IP/ASN assignments, reverse name services) would not have to pay for "value-added services" (VAS).<br /><br />With VAS I mean RIPE NCC's varied extracurricular activities such as outreach, education programs and software development that have expanded considerably over the years and have undoubtedly been of some value to some of its members. Still, many of the same roles/functions are also conducted by membership organizations, NOGs, and independent software developers. Imposition of the costs of such programs on members, who either don't benefit from or do not use them, equates the charging model functioning mostly as an ATM to finance the ambitions and initiatives of the RIPE NCC leadership and a small group of active advocates.<br /><br />Some of us would be happy with a Big Mac meal rather than the expensive all you can eat seafood buffet 😉<br /><br /><br /><br />Kaj<br /><br />-----Original Message-----<br />From: ncc-announce <<a href="mailto:ncc-announce-bounces@ripe.net" rel="noreferrer">ncc-announce-bounces@ripe.net</a>> On Behalf Of Simon Jan Haytink<br />Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 11:35<br />To: <a href="mailto:ncc-announce@ripe.net" rel="noreferrer">ncc-announce@ripe.net</a><br />Subject: [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024<br /><br />Dear RIPE NCC members,<br /><br />We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the membership in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2023. <br /><br />In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging scheme model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a category-based model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers. <br /><br />The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter together with the membership. <br /><br />One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure that our charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk. Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in fees for all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC's members.<br /><br />To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to review. These models can be summarised as:<br /><br />Model 1: A "one-LIR, one-fee" model based on the current RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.<br /><br />Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.<br /><br />In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model. <br /><br />You can download the Excel sheet from:<br /><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-</a>community-consultations%2Fmember-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p27R1eIR06WMjapHci7lCcjUxNBvlnExmGvJr6XesOA%3D&reserved=0<br /><br />We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging Scheme in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the coming years.<br /><br />I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the Membership Discussion mailing list (<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" rel="noreferrer">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>) by 26 April. Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input after this date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM.<br /><br />The consultation will also be recorded and available from:<br /><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0</a><br /><br />I look forward to your input.<br /><br />Kind regards,<br /><br />Simon Jan Haytink<br />Finance Director<br />RIPE NCC<br /><br />Summary<br /><br />7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model<br />21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership<br />24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far<br />12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024<br />26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted on by members<br />24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023<br /><br />References<br /><br />Open House and Survey Results<br />https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fopen-house%2Fripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PXkQQ03kVkFM6T8w0wVHyjqKJV6ckSsqg6cNpg24e5w%3D&reserved=0<br /><br />Presentation at General Meeting<br />https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fgm%2Fmeetings%2Fmay-2021%2Fdocumentation-and-archive%2Fripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O9UYcJe53%2FlO08Qr4X%2FtcR2w0w6YopCcz448FcWGhdg%3D&reserved=0<br /><br />_______________________________________________<br />members-discuss mailing list<br />members-discuss@ripe.net<br />https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss<br />Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/lukasz%40jarosz.pl</blockquote>
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