<div dir="ltr">+1 for this proposal, for many of us (including me) the main issue is not the actual meeting fee but rather the travel and accommodation,<div> and I can imagine it being the same for many WG chairs.</div><div> </div><div>- Cynthia</div></div> <div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 1:16 PM Brian Nisbet <<a href="mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie">brian.nisbet@heanet.ie</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, I think the WGs have to be allowed to choose their own Co-Chairs, under whatever that method is (separate discussion) and if those Co-Chairs abuse something like this, then we have to trust that it will be dealt with. Whether this is soft, such as a quiet conversation from peers or others, or the WG raising it and de-selecting the Co-Chair, then so be it. Brian Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 <a href="mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie" target="_blank">brian.nisbet@heanet.ie</a> <a href="http://www.heanet.ie" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.heanet.ie</a> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 ________________________________________ From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>> Sent: Thursday 4 June 2020 12:11 To: Brian Nisbet; <a href="mailto:hph@oslo.net" target="_blank">hph@oslo.net</a>; <a href="mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Working Group Chair Financial Support call for consensus by 15 June 2020 CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. Brian So you think the WG's own mechanisms would be enough to police my concern? If so that works for me. Regards Michele, who is an incredible pessimist at times -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacknight.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=j2hneeLr3hUsHSxHLhHEb1bjEmz5fUokNEWnVsnQwmY%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacknight.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=j2hneeLr3hUsHSxHLhHEb1bjEmz5fUokNEWnVsnQwmY%3D&reserved=0</a> <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblacknight.blog%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=Kakl%2FX4tWtOFZs1kIwN87vU8jTUDEz%2FdUUye7ZDidms%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblacknight.blog%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=Kakl%2FX4tWtOFZs1kIwN87vU8jTUDEz%2FdUUye7ZDidms%3D&reserved=0</a> / <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fceo.hosting%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=UkIGx5xQMYFxIwkNsQw70M1N2CH8wESGXmQfKuYfeuk%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fceo.hosting%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=UkIGx5xQMYFxIwkNsQw70M1N2CH8wESGXmQfKuYfeuk%3D&reserved=0</a> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park, Sleaty Road, Graiguecullen, Carlow, R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 On 04/06/2020, 12:06, "Brian Nisbet" <<a href="mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie" target="_blank">brian.nisbet@heanet.ie</a>> wrote: All, Two things on this, both with my "Internet citizen and NCC Member" hat firmly on. First off, I'm in favour of the change, I think this is very welcome. Secondly, I would be against this having any requirements other than someone being a WG Co-Chair. While there is work to be done there, as HPH discussed at RIPE80, tying it into this proposal would be wrong. The right point to discuss things like participation etc. is when the Co-Chair is being chosen. It would be awful if a WG chose someone and then a different regulation said that they couldn't avail of this subsidy. Thanks, Brian Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 <a href="mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie" target="_blank">brian.nisbet@heanet.ie</a> <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heanet.ie%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=kwbLEG%2Byk409Y8%2BdOrc9j28l7%2FESb6zXFMi32SqTV2A%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heanet.ie%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=kwbLEG%2Byk409Y8%2BdOrc9j28l7%2FESb6zXFMi32SqTV2A%3D&reserved=0</a> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 ________________________________________ From: ripe-list <<a href="mailto:ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>> Sent: Thursday 4 June 2020 11:56 To: <a href="mailto:hph@oslo.net" target="_blank">hph@oslo.net</a>; <a href="mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Working Group Chair Financial Support call for consensus by 15 June 2020 CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. I think this isn’t a bad idea, but my only concern would be how easy it could be to abuse. The process for fellowships states that one of the criteria is “need of financial assistance”, but how is that decided? I know this topic was brought up in the past and there were quite a few people who were vocally opposed to it. Personally I’d agree that finances should not be a blocker if someone was willing to step up and commit to chairing a WG I do, however, worry that some people could be tempted to use the financial support as their only motivation for being a WG chair, which is obviously the wrong way around. So maybe having something in the policy / process about the person having some kind of track record? With the fellowship RIPE is looking for “fresh blood’ and it’s completely appropriate that the barriers be set at a particular level. However in this instance it’s seeking to provide financial support to existing community members, so setting some criteria around past participation wouldn’t be inappropriate in my opinion. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacknight.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=j2hneeLr3hUsHSxHLhHEb1bjEmz5fUokNEWnVsnQwmY%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacknight.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=j2hneeLr3hUsHSxHLhHEb1bjEmz5fUokNEWnVsnQwmY%3D&reserved=0</a> <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblacknight.blog%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=Kakl%2FX4tWtOFZs1kIwN87vU8jTUDEz%2FdUUye7ZDidms%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblacknight.blog%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=Kakl%2FX4tWtOFZs1kIwN87vU8jTUDEz%2FdUUye7ZDidms%3D&reserved=0</a> / <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fceo.hosting%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=UkIGx5xQMYFxIwkNsQw70M1N2CH8wESGXmQfKuYfeuk%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fceo.hosting%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=UkIGx5xQMYFxIwkNsQw70M1N2CH8wESGXmQfKuYfeuk%3D&reserved=0</a> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park, Sleaty Road, Graiguecullen, Carlow, R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ripe-list <<a href="mailto:ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of Hans Petter Holen <<a href="mailto:hph@oslo.net" target="_blank">hph@oslo.net</a>> Reply to: Hans Petter Holen <<a href="mailto:hph@oslo.net" target="_blank">hph@oslo.net</a>> Date: Thursday 4 June 2020 at 11:08 To: "<a href="mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list@ripe.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list@ripe.net</a>> Subject: [ripe-list] RIPE Working Group Chair Financial Support call for consensus by 15 June 2020 To follow up on the proposal the community plenary at RIPE 80, to provide financial support Working Group (WG) Chairs if needed, I would like community input. The presentation can be seen at 7:45 into the video at <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fripe80.ripe.net%2Farchives%2Fvideo%2F383%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=xIyjSYiGwMWAmRsNB3kUbQl5QMq8wVfVBIxf3Vz2F4Y%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fripe80.ripe.net%2Farchives%2Fvideo%2F383%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=xIyjSYiGwMWAmRsNB3kUbQl5QMq8wVfVBIxf3Vz2F4Y%3D&reserved=0</a><<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fripe80.ripe.net%2Farchives%2Fvideo%2F383%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=xIyjSYiGwMWAmRsNB3kUbQl5QMq8wVfVBIxf3Vz2F4Y%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fripe80.ripe.net%2Farchives%2Fvideo%2F383%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812322981&sdata=xIyjSYiGwMWAmRsNB3kUbQl5QMq8wVfVBIxf3Vz2F4Y%3D&reserved=0</a>> In principle, all RIPE Meeting attendees, including RIPE WG Chairs, Programme Committee members and presenters are expected to cover the costs of participating in a RIPE Meeting. However, in exceptional cases, for instance, if a WG would end up with no Chair during a meeting, a WG Chair can ask the RIPE Chair to request financial assistance from the RIPE NCC. This has mostly been limited to waiving the meeting fee, not for travel and accommodation. The matter was discussed at RIPE NCC Executive Board meeting December 2018 after it was brought to the attention of the RIPE NCC Executive Board through one of its members. The board was positive to provide support also for travel and accommodation if needed, and tasked the RIPE Chair trough EB402 tasked to make a draft procedure. The proposal is modelled after the RIPE Fellowship program and can be found at: <a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fripe%2Fwg%2Fcc%2Fripe-working-group-chair-financial-support&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812332983&sdata=Ghhfow3fyTLS37x4VUymZ2W9dOYAzbvuZVFpu5HpvUA%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fripe%2Fwg%2Fcc%2Fripe-working-group-chair-financial-support&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812332983&sdata=Ghhfow3fyTLS37x4VUymZ2W9dOYAzbvuZVFpu5HpvUA%3D&reserved=0</a><<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fripe%2Fwg%2Fcc%2Fripe-working-group-chair-financial-support&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812332983&sdata=Ghhfow3fyTLS37x4VUymZ2W9dOYAzbvuZVFpu5HpvUA%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fripe%2Fwg%2Fcc%2Fripe-working-group-chair-financial-support&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cd972283ace464ecd72bd08d8087801ae%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637268658812332983&sdata=Ghhfow3fyTLS37x4VUymZ2W9dOYAzbvuZVFpu5HpvUA%3D&reserved=0</a>> If there is consensus from the community on this I will do a formal request to the RIPE NCC for such support. Hans Petter Holen ad-interim RIPE Chair </blockquote></div>