<div dir="ltr">Jordi, I am going to leave this discussion now for a bit but please don't take that as me agreeing with you but simply that I find it difficult to keep talking with you about this without starting to say some harsh words.<div><br></div><div>-Cynthia</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:44 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ripe-list <<a href="mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net">ripe-list@ripe.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="ES" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class="gmail-m_-2628184665504302419WordSection1"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">Absolutely now, it is our law. You can change the word, you can call it whatever you want, but it is the way we manage our processes, etc., in the Spanish dictionary this is law, and I guess is the same translation in English.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 25/11/21 13:43, "Cynthia Revström" <<a href="mailto:me@cynthia.re" target="_blank">me@cynthia.re</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Can you please stop calling it law?<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">It is NOT a law!<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">-Cynthia<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:41 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">That’s my point, we are actually writing “our law”</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">El 25/11/21 13:39, "ripe-list en nombre de Cynthia Revström via ripe-list" <<a href="mailto:ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list@ripe.net</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">But this is not law, it is a procedural document, and procedural documents can include suggestions even if national laws often don't.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">The argument that it can't contain suggestions just because normal national laws often don't, is extremely silly.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">-Cynthia<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:36 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">That’s my point, we are actually writing “our law”</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Saludos,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jordi</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">El 25/11/21 13:34, "Cynthia Revström" <<a href="mailto:me@cynthia.re" target="_blank">me@cynthia.re</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Yes but this is NOT law as Sander said, we are not writing a law here.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">This is a procedural document in a community, not a law.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">-Cynthia<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:30 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ripe-list <<a href="mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list@ripe.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Hi Sander,<br><br>Just count how many proposals have reached consensus even if they have not got a previous discussion in the list. Is a matter of numbers.<br><br>Law != suggestions, law must be strict and avoid as much as possible subjective interpretations.<br><br><br>El 25/11/21 13:17, "ripe-list en nombre de Sander Steffann" <<a href="mailto:ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:sander@steffann.nl" target="_blank">sander@steffann.nl</a>> escribió:<br><br> Jordi,<br><br> > 4) The text about the "idea" is wrong and untrue. Past experience doesn't show that.<br><br> No, *your* past behaviour doesn't show that. You just dumping policy proposals on a mailing list without discussing the idea first is probably one of the reasons why this paragraph is included, and I STRONGLY support it.<br><br> > There have been many policy proposals that didn't followed that process and they are actual policies. The PDP is a set of rules, strict rules of a process, not "rules and suggestions". 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