[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
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Daniel Pearson
daniel at privatesystems.net
Mon May 14 15:27:05 CEST 2018
It seems most people don't look at the links and click the first unsubscribe link they find, half the time not associated with their email address. I get them too... I blame technology for dumbing things down so people don't think. :) On 05/14/2018 08:24 AM, Adrian Bolster wrote: > > Go on then… who tried to unsubscribe me? > > *From:*members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf > Of *Daniel Pearson > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 13:50 > *To:* Anas Tablieh <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > Well, use your email address and reset it :) > > On 05/14/2018 07:48 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > unsubscribe link need a password !! > > *From:*Daniel Pearson <daniel at privatesystems.net> > <mailto:daniel at privatesystems.net> > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 14:48 > *To:* Anas Tablieh <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com> > <mailto:ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > Hi there, > > This is a mailing list, please use the unsubscribe link at the > bottom of these emails that is associated with your email address! > > > > On 05/14/2018 07:45 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > Please remove my mail address from this chat !!!!!! > > *From:*members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf Of > *Daniel Pearson > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 14:25 > *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > I concur, there is no legal leg to stand on to force space to > be returned. It just cannot happen, end period. Thinking about > it is nothing but a fantasy and we live in reality. > > What your asking is no different than having a complete > stranger walk up to your house, admire your big empty back > yard, demand that you give it to them because they want to > build a house in your neighborhood and well, you don't use > your backyard so why can't they have it for free? > > > > On 05/14/2018 07:05 AM, Peter Linder wrote: > > But there is no point in arguing this. It has been > discussed over and over: > > It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just because > you want it for free or at a very low cost. Current > holders have a good legal ground to refuse. Even if it was > somehow reclaimed on a large scale, it would last for a > year or so? Remember, most addresses would need to go to > countries with large populations where Internet is not > built up like it is in Europe or North America. Then what? > Even if RIPE could reallocate addresses to last a few more > years it would mean even *more* work to do v6, not less. > > Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE will > allocate to you. I know this sucks, especially in poorer > countries. But that is probably the only way your business > is going to happen, in the short term. An alternative > would be to bother the IETF to release their reserved > space but that is probably a waste of time (never mind > de-bogonizing it). > > Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little because of > cost. It will eventually start hurting more, and in > different ways. There are ways to prepare for that, > including making sure v6 is enabled and functioning on > everything you make. > > /Peter > > Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev David Benwell: > > No its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why > allow a LLR to retain address space that they may > never have used. > > *From:*members-discuss > [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] *On Behalf > Of *William > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 12:32 > *To:* Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> > *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer > (in)security > > But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a > look at your history (or here in Croatia) - you want > to do the same, steal from some parts of the society > ('the rich') to 'benefit' the whole which ends > horribly wrong. > > This discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian > suggestion to move RIPE to Moscow. > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / > Rijeka, Croatia > > https://ip6.im- No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for > some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP > usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have. > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM > <suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: > > Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider > the fact that those ‘guys’ got their hands on /8 > blocks tens of years ago, and probably did not pay > a dime for them. > > In the light of events, one /8, respecting the > 1024 IPv4 policy that RIPE has, would belong to > over 16.000 LIR accounts! > > And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a > lot of business compared to one company that holds > a /8 :) > > Thanks > > — > > > imap://daniel%40knownhost%2Ecom@mail.knownhost.com:143/fetch%3EUID%3E.INBOX%3E303885?header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.jpg > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> / > +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> > > *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu <http://www.bunea.eu/> / > +40745495495 <tel:+40745495495> > > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov > <alxl at telenet.lv <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv>> wrote: > > Bruno has it’s point. > > Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, > but only ICANN has the power to do so. > > I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather > say as all IP space is rented (owning a number > isn’t bright), all that rented space, wherever > it is legacy or current should be re-audited > to justify the reason of use. > > > -- > Alex Lobachov > Telenet, sia > Network Systems Engineer > LinkedIn: https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll > E-mail: alxl at telenet.lv <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv> > Skype: alxl__ > Direct office: +371 67886224 > Office: +371 67711111 > > *From:*Bruno Carvalho > <mailto:bruno.carvalho at xrv.pt> > > *Sent:*Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM > > *To:*members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > *Subject:*Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP > transfer (in)security > > William, > > Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was > introduced. And everyone should be regulated > (pre-RIR or not). > > Is the same has if you own a car from back the > traffic laws (1800 years?). If you drive it > now, you have to comply with all the laws that > regulate the sector. > Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't > have to comply with the actual regulations? > > If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 > and 255.255.255.255 (that are not local or > bogons), i bet that most than 50% are legacy > and not used. > > --- > > Image removed by sender. XRV > > > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt <http://xrv.pt>) | > +351 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment before > printing this email > > > > Image removed by sender. Visit our website > <https://www.xrv.pt/> > Image removed by sender. Facebook > <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/>Image > removed by sender. Twitter > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote: > > These are legacy. They are not RIR business. > > No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is > plainly wrong, they never owned them, this > is pre-RIR space), they are private property. > > Taking them is theft and nothing else, no > matter how you phrase it. > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - > Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia > > https://ip6.im <https://ip6.im/>- No RIPE > LIR? Still read this email for some > reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for > BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't > hurt to have. > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea > TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: > > I agree, > > There are tens of /8's available, some > of them even unannounced. For example > there are lots of entities which if > they would gave up (even partially) of > their unused blocks, it would push the > IPv4 complete exaustion to 2020+. > > Thanks, > > Petru > > — > > > <email-signature.jpg> > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>/ +40752481282 > <tel:+40752481282> > > *Bunea TELECOM*/ DATACENTER / APP > DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu > <http://www.bunea.eu/>/ +40745495495 > <tel:+40745495495> > > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, > Janarthanan Sundaram > <j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl > <mailto:j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl>> > wrote: > > I think we should prioritize on on > point two: what to do with unused > blocks. > > > *Van:* members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> > *Namens *Bruno Carvalho > *Verzonden:* maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11 > *Aan:* members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Onderwerp:* Re: [members-discuss] > VL: IP transfer (in)security > > This discussion is quite > interesting. But i think it should > be discussed between all RiRs. Not > only for RIPE. > When we look at big companies, > like Microsoft, and do a simple > scan of their assigned IP > ranges... we found some /14 and > several /16 unassigned/unused ranges. > > > Personnally, i think we should > focus on 2 main things: > > > - Improve IPv6 implementation all > over the territory (i know this is > painfull for many LIRs because it > implies additional work and > purchase of new equipments. But > let's face it. We are in 2018. If > an equipment doesn't support IPv6, > it's very obsolete and not > performant). > > > - Check with the other RiRs what > would be the best to do with those > big unused ranges that are owned > by companies that don't use them. > > > Regards > > > > > --- > > <blocked.gif> > > > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt > <http://xrv.pt/>) | +351 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment > before printing this email > > > > > > > <blocked.gif> <https://www.xrv.pt/> > <blocked.gif> > <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/><blocked.gif> > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > > > > On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello > > Not needed IP = The addressese > company is ready to sell for a > small profit 😊 ? This is > probably good indication that > its not used anymore. One > option is to automatically > block all and any IP > transaction which does not > involve transaction of the > whole company/business. It is > a question that can IP be a > commodity. Now its a commodity > that is getting more rare by > the year. Maybe IP should be > considered an jointly owned > part of infrastructure which > is deployed by need basis. > (Socialistic way) > > Other option is to start to > take money per IP. This would > instantly mean that everyone > would look up to own ip > spaces. Let say it would cost > 1 euro / year for a IP it > would only be approx 1000 > euros for the smallest > allocation. Someone with 10 > million IP addressese are > likely to happily pay for it > fi they are in use, but if > they are not i would think > they would be handed back. > (Capitalistic way) > > One option is also to go with > the current system because > internet is working so its not > horribly wrong at the moment > either. > > One interesting this is tho > that old LIR:s are likely to > wanting to keep these things > unchanged. New LIR:s are more > likely to want changes as this > is heavily favoring old LIR:s. > And every year a > proportionally larger part > will be the ones with few IP:s > and same vote than the one > with alot of IP:s and also > only 1 vote. > > Br. Hans > > > > > -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- > Lähettäjä: members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> > Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet > Lähetetty: maanantai 14. > toukokuuta 2018 10.34 > Vastaanottaja: pdonner at znak.fi > <mailto:pdonner at znak.fi>; > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] > VL: IP transfer (in)security > > W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, > Philip Donner pisze: > > > I would like to amplify > Dave's good proposal, by > suggesting that unused > addresses should be handed > back to RIPE, so that they > can be added to a pool of > addresses reserved for > LIRs who needs them for > non-profit promotion of IP > networks. > > > > > > Ok, but there is never ending > story to resolve: how to > define 'unused addresses'. > Because not announced in BGP > definitely != not used. > > -- > > Tomasz Śląski > pl.skonet > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/alxl%40telenet.lv > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/peter%40fiberdirekt.se > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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