[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals

Thu Apr 11 19:41:33 CEST 2024

Lets talk about isp's also hording v4 space

Sky
90.208.0.0/12

Virgin Media

86.23.16.0/20
[18:34]
86.23.0.0/18
[18:34]
86.37.0.0/17
[18:34]
86.36.192.0/18
[18:36]
92.232.20.0/22
All fully unused, maybe internal but i doubt it maybe we should ACTUALLY focus on the correct reasons on why we have ran out and why LIRs have declined.

________________________________
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of ivaylo <ivaylo at bglans.net>
Sent: 11 April 2024 18:32
To: Kaj Niemi <kajtzu at basen.net>
Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals

By IANA Documents:

053/8    Daimler AG       1993-10  whois.ripe.net
https://rdap.db.ripe.net/        LEGACY

They are delegated to RIPE. All legacy resource holders must be asked to
become LIRs or to find sponsoring LIR.

If you dont route public resource, why do you then need and hold such ?
Let they free it or pay for it as everyone else !

Ivaylo Josifov
VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
+359 52 969393
Varna, Bulgaria

On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, Kaj Niemi wrote:

> Daimler?s 53/8 is legacy addesss space as is the 25/8 for UK MoD. There are
> plenty of addresses that are outside of RIR control for legacy reasons.
>
> Similarity addresses not being rooted on the internet doesn't mean they
> wouldn't be in use elsewhere.
>
> There isn't really anything to "ignore".
>
>
>
> Kaj
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of
> sdy at a-n-t.ru <sdy at a-n-t.ru>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 8:00 PM
> To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin at roskomnadzor.io>
> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net>
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging
> Scheme 2025 Proposals
> Absolutely agree - it's abnormal situation.
>
> But now looks like NCC bosses continue ignore it. May be they are under
> control on Mercedes-Benz or UK Ministry of Defence??? :-)
>
> But really, it is look like, it is too difficult to reform charge scheme
> in this situation.
>
> > RIPE saying about last IPv4 /8 is run out, but stop...
> >
> > IPv4 /8 - Mercedes-Benz Group AG
> >https://apps.db.r/
> ipe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue
> %26searchtext%3D53.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d
> 340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C63848451623
> 7821753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi
> I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CGALEu12rMr93jaKbr5Jd%2FSyL
> 1T1iEinoJQUm%2BfqbuI%3D&reserved=0
> > (over 50% of pool unused! Guess they even didnt have so much cars for so
> > much IPs)
> >
> > IPv4 /8 - UK Ministry of Defence
> >https://apps.db.r/
> ipe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue
> %26searchtext%3D25.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d
> 340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C63848451623
> 7833186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi
> I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jY3r3II7kmzvQ8F4p44f392NTta
> rv%2F1bfIxkH7IwqIE%3D&reserved=0
> > (Never was announced -
> >https://stat.ripe/
> .net%2Fui2013%2F%252025.0.0.0%23tabId%3Dat-a-glance&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3
> d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C
> 638484516237840815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
> uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XLApVhfQEEQc91fD
> 2v2V0QDRVGIthXqJvHaqs%2B6%2Bh4k%3D&reserved=0)
> >
> > This members hold most biggest blocks in RIPE and didnt use it, but pay
> > same - 50 EUR/year for this IPv4 /8.
> >
> > When some LIRs have /8 and pay for that 50 EUR/year + 1600 EUR/year
> > (membership fee), other members paying same amount for 1 x /24 (if they
> > have luck!)
> >
> > Its nonsense, why RIPE continue to funding more and more budgets from
> > small LIRs?
> >
> > Its looks not good. Its looks like a some lobby!
> >
> > On 11.04.2024 15:52, Dmitry Kohmanyuk via members-discuss wrote:
> >> On 11 Apr 2024, at 16:55, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss
> >> <members-discuss at ripe.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> Confidential/?????????????>>
> >> Just a note: you are posting on mailing list which is archived so
> >> everyone can read every post, yours too. Perhaps that line was added
> >> automatically:)
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Why do you think this statement is correct: ?They are the main source
> >>> of work for RIPE employees.? ??
> >>>
> >>> Even if you think about auditing or maintaining RIPE DB, it would be
> >>> strange to think that working with /16 requires 256 times more time and
> >>> effort than working with /24.
> >>> If you think about different "non-MAIN" services like Learning, then
> >>> there is no difference between big and small LIR at all.
> >>> Resources do not reflect all of these dependencies. And again you are
> >>> talking about fairness.
> >>
> >> In the fairness of use of learning resources, RPKI, Training you are
> >> correct, yet we are talking about ?cost of doing business? resources.
> >> Since you seem to represent a biggest mobile telecom of Ukraine,
> >> Kyivstar, and also the only IPv6-enabled large ISP in the country
> >> (thanks for that btw) - what is your opinion re charging per resource
> >> allocated, either by category method, or logarithmic method, or some
> >> other (number of resources in use, objects in the database, etc.). Your
> >> company makes heavy use of IPv4 and has millions of subscribers: what
> >> does ?fair? sounds like to you? Do you support extra fees for those who
> >> have IPv4 available, or discount for those who have to make do with IPv6
> >> only?
> >>
> >> (Deleting hundreds of quoted lines below.)
> >>
> >> ? dk at hostmaster.ua ?We had IPv6 before Kyivstar?
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of
> >>> Mihail Fedorov
> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 3:39 PM
> >>> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC
> >>> Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals
> >>>
> >>> Charging per ASN is even worse than just price increase. It is terrible
> >>> and killing even more LIRs
> >>>
> >>> Imagine rather new LIR who is trying to do business based on what is
> >>> LIR intended for - providing LIR services to consumers. For example 30
> >>> clients who requested ASN sponsorship during year.
> >>> If charged per ASN they will pay twice more than huge corporations
> >>> serving only purpose of their own. Those typically have just 1-2 ASNs
> >>> and tons of resources attached to it. They are main source of work for
> >>> RIPE staff and they should be funding expensive projects like Atlas and
> >>> others.
> >>>
> >>> Actually working LIRs also have business contracts/logic already
> >>> established on current charging scheme and adding ASN fee will kill
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>> Once again - why not just bill based on resources? It?s extremely easy.
> >>> Oh, right, resource holders won?t like it :
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> members-discuss at ripe.net
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> >
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