[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals
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Wieger Bontekoe
wieger.bontekoe at productsup.com
Thu Apr 11 19:48:57 CEST 2024
When I look at the references to LIRs from the RIPE NCC board members, I think they are committed to ignoring this discussion. Would be expensive for their employers. Wieger Bontekoe Principal Site Reliability Engineer On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 7:43 PM Blake Shepherd <blake66 at live.co.uk> wrote: > Lets talk about isp's also hording v4 space > > > Sky > 90.208.0.0/12 > > Virgin Media > > 86.23.16.0/20 > [18:34] > 86.23.0.0/18 > [18:34] > 86.37.0.0/17 > [18:34] > 86.36.192.0/18 > [18:36] > 92.232.20.0/22 > All fully unused, maybe internal but i doubt it maybe we should ACTUALLY > focus on the correct reasons on why we have ran out and why LIRs have > declined. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of > ivaylo <ivaylo at bglans.net> > *Sent:* 11 April 2024 18:32 > *To:* Kaj Niemi <kajtzu at basen.net> > *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC > Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals > > > By IANA Documents: > > 053/8 Daimler AG 1993-10 whois.ripe.net > https://rdap.db.ripe.net/ LEGACY > > They are delegated to RIPE. All legacy resource holders must be asked to > become LIRs or to find sponsoring LIR. > > If you dont route public resource, why do you then need and hold such ? > Let they free it or pay for it as everyone else ! > > > Ivaylo Josifov > VarnaIX / Varteh LTD > +359 52 969393 > Varna, Bulgaria > > > On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, Kaj Niemi wrote: > > > Daimler?s 53/8 is legacy addesss space as is the 25/8 for UK MoD. There > are > > plenty of addresses that are outside of RIR control for legacy reasons. > > > > Similarity addresses not being rooted on the internet doesn't mean they > > wouldn't be in use elsewhere. > > > > There isn't really anything to "ignore". > > > > > > > > Kaj > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of > > sdy at a-n-t.ru <sdy at a-n-t.ru> > > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 8:00 PM > > To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin at roskomnadzor.io> > > Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net> > > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC > Charging > > Scheme 2025 Proposals > > Absolutely agree - it's abnormal situation. > > > > But now looks like NCC bosses continue ignore it. May be they are under > > control on Mercedes-Benz or UK Ministry of Defence??? :-) > > > > But really, it is look like, it is too difficult to reform charge scheme > > in this situation. > > > > > RIPE saying about last IPv4 /8 is run out, but stop... > > > > > > IPv4 /8 - Mercedes-Benz Group AG > > >https://apps.db.r/ > > ipe.net > %2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue > > > %26searchtext%3D53.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d > > > 340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C63848451623 > > > 7821753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi > > > I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CGALEu12rMr93jaKbr5Jd%2FSyL > > 1T1iEinoJQUm%2BfqbuI%3D&reserved=0 > > > (over 50% of pool unused! Guess they even didnt have so much cars for > so > > > much IPs) > > > > > > IPv4 /8 - UK Ministry of Defence > > >https://apps.db.r/ > > ipe.net > %2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue > > > %26searchtext%3D25.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d > > > 340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C63848451623 > > > 7833186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi > > > I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jY3r3II7kmzvQ8F4p44f392NTta > > rv%2F1bfIxkH7IwqIE%3D&reserved=0 > > > (Never was announced - > > >https://stat.ripe/ > > > .net%2Fui2013%2F%252025.0.0.0%23tabId%3Dat-a-glance&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3 > > > d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C > > > 638484516237840815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l > > > uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XLApVhfQEEQc91fD > > 2v2V0QDRVGIthXqJvHaqs%2B6%2Bh4k%3D&reserved=0) > > > > > > This members hold most biggest blocks in RIPE and didnt use it, but pay > > > same - 50 EUR/year for this IPv4 /8. > > > > > > When some LIRs have /8 and pay for that 50 EUR/year + 1600 EUR/year > > > (membership fee), other members paying same amount for 1 x /24 (if they > > > have luck!) > > > > > > Its nonsense, why RIPE continue to funding more and more budgets from > > > small LIRs? > > > > > > Its looks not good. Its looks like a some lobby! > > > > > > On 11.04.2024 15:52, Dmitry Kohmanyuk via members-discuss wrote: > > >> On 11 Apr 2024, at 16:55, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss > > >> <members-discuss at ripe.net> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > Confidential/?????????????>> > > >> Just a note: you are posting on mailing list which is archived so > > >> everyone can read every post, yours too. Perhaps that line was added > > >> automatically:) > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Why do you think this statement is correct: ?They are the main source > > >>> of work for RIPE employees.? ?? > > >>> > > >>> Even if you think about auditing or maintaining RIPE DB, it would be > > >>> strange to think that working with /16 requires 256 times more time > and > > >>> effort than working with /24. > > >>> If you think about different "non-MAIN" services like Learning, then > > >>> there is no difference between big and small LIR at all. > > >>> Resources do not reflect all of these dependencies. And again you are > > >>> talking about fairness. > > >> > > >> In the fairness of use of learning resources, RPKI, Training you are > > >> correct, yet we are talking about ?cost of doing business? resources. > > >> Since you seem to represent a biggest mobile telecom of Ukraine, > > >> Kyivstar, and also the only IPv6-enabled large ISP in the country > > >> (thanks for that btw) - what is your opinion re charging per resource > > >> allocated, either by category method, or logarithmic method, or some > > >> other (number of resources in use, objects in the database, etc.). > Your > > >> company makes heavy use of IPv4 and has millions of subscribers: what > > >> does ?fair? sounds like to you? Do you support extra fees for those > who > > >> have IPv4 available, or discount for those who have to make do with > IPv6 > > >> only? > > >> > > >> (Deleting hundreds of quoted lines below.) > > >> > > >> ? dk at hostmaster.ua ?We had IPv6 before Kyivstar? > > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf > Of > > >>> Mihail Fedorov > > >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 3:39 PM > > >>> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net > > >>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC > > >>> Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals > > >>> > > >>> Charging per ASN is even worse than just price increase. It is > terrible > > >>> and killing even more LIRs > > >>> > > >>> Imagine rather new LIR who is trying to do business based on what is > > >>> LIR intended for - providing LIR services to consumers. For example > 30 > > >>> clients who requested ASN sponsorship during year. > > >>> If charged per ASN they will pay twice more than huge corporations > > >>> serving only purpose of their own. Those typically have just 1-2 ASNs > > >>> and tons of resources attached to it. They are main source of work > for > > >>> RIPE staff and they should be funding expensive projects like Atlas > and > > >>> others. > > >>> > > >>> Actually working LIRs also have business contracts/logic already > > >>> established on current charging scheme and adding ASN fee will kill > > >>> them. > > >>> > > >>> Once again - why not just bill based on resources? It?s extremely > easy. > > >>> Oh, right, resource holders won?t like it : > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> members-discuss mailing list > > >> members-discuss at ripe.net > > >>https://lists.rip/ > > e.net > %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075 > > > 141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C6384845 > > > 16237849363%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLC > > > JBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5xPClT5Fo9cbujpjJnhEa0% > > 2BXYp%2Bgqis8LyW0aB9q3pk%3D&reserved=0 > > >> Unsubscribe: > > >>https://lists.rip/ > > e.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fadmin%2540roskomnadzor.io > &da > > > ta=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d > > > 0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237858091%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 > > > wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sd > > ata=Eks28Oq%2FTG5r5gT9wkniC7VADHmZ8Nw7dbov04Inx2Q%3D&reserved=0 > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > members-discuss mailing list > > > members-discuss at ripe.net > > >https://lists.rip/ > > e.net > %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075 > > > 141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C6384845 > > > 16237864817%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLC > > > JBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RZzLuz3ktn8BGrksDewVFVy > > 5eQ7MM%2FsgUvOecZojH2k%3D&reserved=0 > > > Unsubscribe: > > >https://lists.rip/ > > e.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fsdy%2540a-n-t.ru > &data=05%7C0 > > > 2%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3 > > > %7C0%7C0%7C638484516237870617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi > > > LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sl80S > > SCaY3TeMV111wmgzWzt0qgsCCD5TjxTb4KA9Lg%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- > > ? ????????? ???????? ??????? > > ??? "????? ??? ???????" > > +7(498)785-8-000 ???. > > +7(495)940-92-11 ???. > > +7(925)518-10-69 ???. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net > > https://lists.rip/ > > e.net > %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075 > > > 141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C6384845 > > > 16237876231%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLC > > > JBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KTgAjlc9s2VlvMGVIUBdfQg > > OaFcz04duH2MOVBVkVu8%3D&reserved=0 > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.rip/ > > e.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fkajtzu%2540basen.net > &data=05 > > > %7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b > > > 55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237881488%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw > > > MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=% > > 2F%2FPAq%2Fwp4bjWUAMxWFASb4GHSsKZ%2BlbdVJlWeLLbX%2FE%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/wieger.bontekoe%40productsup.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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